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Podcast 317: Do You Thrive on a “Sense of Urgency,” a Hack for Drinking Less Alcohol, and a Conversation about Just Work with Kim Scott and Trier Bryant


Update: Thanks to everyone who answered the survey! Your participation is extremely helpful—we really appreciate it.

Send in your stories of clutter-clearing triumph! Send them to podcast@gretchenrubin.com or post on social media #outerorderinnercalm and #beforeandafter.

Try This at Home: Do you thrive in an environment with a “sense of urgency?”

I recently read Notes from a Young Black Chef by Chef Kwame Onwuachi (Amazon, Bookshop). In the memoir, he describes his externship from the Culinary Institute of America at Per Se, a renowned New York City restaurant in New York City created by chef Thomas Keller.

Onwuachi notes that in all Keller’s restaurants, a plaque under the kitchen clock says “Sense of Urgency.”

Throughout the memoir, it's clear that Kwame Onwuachi thrives on the sense of urgency.

But not everyone loves an atmosphere of urgency. Do you?

Happiness Hack: A listener wanted to cut back on drinking wine, without giving it up altogether. She found that measuring out the portions and adding seltzer helped her to enjoy wine more.

She used the Strategy of Monitoring, the Strategy of Inconvenience, the Strategy of Treats, and the Strategy of the Lightning Bolt.

Her treat: she bought this set of attractive set of beakers to use for measuring.

Interview: Kim Scott & Trier Bryant.

Kim Scott is the author of Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity (Amazon, Bookshop) and co-founder of the company Radical Candor. Kim has led teams AdSense, YouTube, and DoubleClick teams at Google. She was a member of the faculty at Apple University and a CEO coach at Dropbox, Qualtrics, Twitter, and other tech companies. She’s also managed a pediatric clinic in Kosovo and started a diamond-cutting factory in Moscow.

Now she has a new book: Just Work: Get Sh*t Done, Fast & Fair. (Amazon, Bookshop). It’s about how we can recognize, attack, and eliminate workplace injustice―and transform our careers and organizations in the process.

Trier Bryant is the CEO of Just Work, the company that she and Kim Scott have co-founded to put the ideas in the book into practice. Trier Bryant was an officer in the U.S. Air Force, and a leader at Goldman Sachs, Twitter, and Astra. She also founded a DE&I consulting firm Pathfinder.

We talked about:

  • what inspired Kim Scott to write the book, and what inspired Kim Scott and Trier Bryant to start their company
  • distinctions among the terms bias, prejudice, and bullying
  • how to be an “upstander”
  • top suggestions for making our workplaces more just
  • why having an unjust workplace is unjust and also bad for business

Kim's Try This at Home: At work, if you confront bias, use an "I" statement: "I don't think you meant that the way it sounded." If you confront prejudice, use an "It" statement: "It is illegal to..." "It is ridiculous to..." If you confront bullying, use a "You" statement: "You can't talk to me like that."

Trier's Try This at Home: Make sure that you have people who are motivating you, who are uplifting you. "I'm getting that a lot from my Peloton instructors," she said.

If you listen to the very end of the episode, in our weekly "button," you'll hear Kim and Trier talk briefly about what it's like to be two Rebels working together.

Gretchen's Demerit: I haven’t been properly shelving any of my “five senses” books—they're just sitting around in big piles.

Elizabeth's Gold Star: Elizabeth gives a gold star to the reality TV show The Real World Homecoming: New York on Paramount Plus.


Know Yourself Better Challenge with M.M. La Fleur: 

This 21-day challenge will help you get to know yourself better. Click here to sign up and for three weeks, I’ll send you an email with a question, or series of questions, meant to help you gain insight into yourself. Free!

Outer Order Inner Calm SMS Course:

If you're looking for simple, concrete ways to create more outer order, check out my Outer Order Inner Calm 30-day SMS challenge. This 30-day text (SMS) challenge will help you declutter your life to make more room for happiness. Click here to join.

What we’re reading:

Quote From the Podcast

“Being an upstander is not standing up for the person who’s receiving the harm; it’s about standing up to the bias, the prejudice, the bullying."
Kim Scott and Trier Bryant

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