Big news — Life in Five Senses is an instant New York Times bestseller! I’m thrilled. Thanks so much, listeners, for your support and enthusiasm.
We’ll be discussing Life in Five Senses for the Happier Podcast Book Club in late May. Start reading, and send in your questions and comments.
Also, Mother’s Day is approaching on May 14. If you’re looking for a gift for a mother in your life —or for yourself — check out the Happiness Project Shop for journals, drinkware, and more.
Use the code MOTHERSDAY30 at checkout to get 30% off your entire order. Note:
- One use per customer
- Can’t be combined with other discounts
- Active from April 30 to May 8
Note: Listeners will be getting a free excerpt from the Life in Five Senses audiobook in the Happier feed on May 6. Find links to buy the complete audiobook here.
Try This at Home
Be a source of opportunity.
I mention the organization, Bottom Line.
Happiness Hack
A listener suggests using the free app ScreenZen.
We mention my “Four Tendencies” personality framework—you can learn more about it here.
We also mention the 21 strategies for habit change that I write about in my book Better Than Before — in particular, we mention the Strategy of Inconvenience and the Strategy of Distraction.
Deep Dive
We take a deep dive into the Calendar of Catalysts, with additional dates inspired by the five senses that listeners suggested.
Listener Question
A listener asks, “How do you get your ideas for books to read?”
Top sources: Family, friends, listeners, readers, our book clubs, Olivia’s Book Club podcast, Backlisted podcast, New York Times Book Review podcast, Slightly Foxed quarterly, magazines, newspapers, “Staff Picks” in bookstores, and booksellers.
Demerits & Gold Stars
- Elizabeth’s Demerit: She hasn’t been doing her nightly flossing.
- Gretchen’s Gold Star: I give a gold star to Elizabeth and her writing partner Sarah Fain for learning from the past—the 2007 writers’ strike—so having a plan to write a thriller together if a strike happens later this year.
Resources
If you love beautiful quotations, sign up for my free “Moment of Happiness” newsletter to get a great quotation in your in-box every weekday.
What we’re reading
428
Gretchen
Hello and welcome to Happier. A podcast where we discuss strategies and hacks for building more happiness into our daily lives. This week we’ll talk about why we should try to be a source of opportunities, and we discuss a listener’s hack for staying off our phones. I’m Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies Happiness, Good Habits, The Five Senses. I’m back in New York City briefly because I’m in the middle of my book tour.
[Music]
Gretchen
And joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, I wish we’d had much more time together in L.A..
Elizabeth
That’s me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in L.A.. And yes, Gretch, it was amazing. You came, you cleared, you decluttered. It was incredible. My office is so much better. But we didn’t get to my closet. However, that all is much less important than big news. Life In Five Senses hit the New York Times Bestseller list.
Elizabeth
Number four I’m so excited for you. Congratulations.
Gretchen
Well, thank you. And thank you for all the listeners and readers who preordered.
Elizabeth
They heard heard the call.
Gretchen
Yes. And it is just a thrill. It’s a huge milestone as a writer. And I’m really just absolutely delighted. It kind of hasn’t even really sunk in. It’s happened before. And believe me, it never gets old.
Elizabeth
Yes. Oh, it’s so exciting. New York Times best seller.
Gretchen
Yeah. So before we launch in we had two interesting response as to the listener question that we discussed in episode 425, which was about the family members who had these friendly but very rambunctious dogs that were pretty frightening to the listener’s daughter.
Elizabeth
Yes, this comes from an actual dog trainer, Stacy, she says, regarding the family who seems to be letting their dogs jump all over their niece, who is afraid of them. I’m sure the family has good intentions thinking that the girl will get used to them. I agree with her conclusion in that this is not going to work well.
Elizabeth
They’re hoping she grows to love them like they do, or at least see they are not harmful. But in her mind, they’re unpredictable and rough behavior is scary. I recommend that they keep their dogs under control. They can be on a leash in their house or yard with the niece, or they can interact through a baby gate – what zoo trainers call protected contact.
Elizabeth
One of the best ways for dogs and people to get used to each other in a non-confrontational way is by going for a walk together. Doesn’t have to be a long walk, but while they’re out, they can get used to each other’s presence without focusing on each other. The dogs are likely to be calmer afterwards too, and the parents are less likely to feel guilty putting their dogs in another room, ideally with a great chew project item like a big bone or a stuffed cone toy.
Elizabeth
Of course, my strongest advice would be to hire a dog trainer to help teach the dogs better manners. But I might be a little biased there.
Gretchen
Well, I thought this was such practical, useful advice. That’s very much like embracing the dogs, but in a way that feels controlled and safer for the daughter.
Elizabeth
Yes. And going on a walk together I thought was great advice. And I have to admit, Gretch, Nacho and Daisy were jumping all over you. Maybe if we’d gone on a little walk together right when you got there, they would have been calmer. They’re just so excited when there’s someone new.
Gretchen
Right.
Elizabeth
They jump. So anyway, Gretchen, we definitely do need to do some dog training for the jumping.
Gretchen
Well, the thing is, like, I think this is a good example because Daisy and Nacho were obviously very friendly and I’m tall enough and big enough. They weren’t knocking me over, but I could imagine that if I was a little kid, they’re much stronger and faster than they look and they’re loud and they’re, you know, there’s two of them.
Gretchen
So you can see how it can be pretty overwhelming to a little child. But if you’re going on a walk, yeah, that’s a great way to get out that energy, be together, go outside 23 in 23, accomplishes a lot of things.
Elizabeth
And then Holly said, I wonder if I might help to tell them you have a plan to help your daughter warm up to the dogs and invite them to be a part of your team. For example, you could explain that for the next six months or some other time frame. The plan is to help your daughter grow comfortable with small dogs, then dogs on a leash, then larger rambunctious dogs.
Elizabeth
The exact steps probably don’t matter as much as communicating that you have a proactive plan. Your family members might be more diligent about controlling their dogs if they see it as a temporary step rather than the way things will always be when you come over. As a bonus, it might give you a less emotionally fraught way to communicate.
Elizabeth
You can say We’re working on the plan with our neighbor’s dog and it’s going well so far. Thanks for keeping yours away for a little longer.
Gretchen
Again, I think this is so constructive because it really fits the mentality of the person with the dogs, which is she should learn to love dogs and our dogs are great. And then you’re like, Well, we’re working toward that and this is temporary and you can help. But we have the same aim rather than every time we come over for the next ten years.
Gretchen
You have to shut up your dogs. Yes.
Elizabeth
Great advice.
Gretchen
Yeah, great advice.
Elizabeth
And Gretchen, we want to remind everybody, we have our new book club selection, which is The New York Times best-selling book, Life in Five Senses. Surprise. So everybody get your copy. We’re going to have our book club episode at the end of May. So start reading if you haven’t already.
Gretchen
And then finally, Mother’s Day is coming up. If you are thinking that you might want to buy something for a mother in your life or ask for something for yourself. From my store, I’ve got a lot of journals and mugs and water bottles, all kinds of stuff there. You can get a discount 30% off your entire order. The code is MOTHERSDAY30. One use per customer.
Gretchen
You can’t combine with other discounts. And it goes from April 30th to May 8th. So if you go to happiercast.com/store, just enter MOTHERSDAY30, that’s the number 30 and get the discount. Great. So this way to try this at home tip is to be a source of opportunity.
Elizabeth
So explain what you mean by that, Gretchen.
Gretchen
Well, it just seems to me that one of the greatest things that we can do for other people is to be a source of opportunity. And there’s all different ways you can be an opportunity. You can make introductions for people who you think would benefit from knowing each other. You can make recommendations like you found a great person to come fix your home computer.
Gretchen
You’ve found a great person to cut your hair. You found a great person to fix your sink, whatever. Most people really need recommendations and referrals and you can go out of your way to do that. You can invite someone to a book club. You can be a mentor. I think that a lot of times we have good intentions, but I know, at least for me, sometimes it’s on my list of like the things is that you can do it any time you do it in
Gretchen
No time. And I’m trying to be a much better if somebody is like, Oh, wait, you have a great person, give me their information. Really following up because.
Elizabeth
That helps both people. It helps the person who wants the job and the person who needs a service.
Gretchen
Absolutely. And it seems like more and more we’re going to this gig economy where people have these super rarefied skill sets and people are looking for those super specialized skill sets. And if you can be the person to make a recommendation, as you say, it’s like you feel good and they both feel good. It’s win, win, win.
Elizabeth
And Gretchen, I was thinking about this with if you’re a big volunteer, say, at your child’s school, you could also reach out to another parent and say, Hey, do you want to do this committee with me? So way for that parent to get to know people and to be part of the community. I mean, there’s lots of different kinds of opportunity, right?
Elizabeth
There’s a job opportunity. I mean, and that’s maybe providing an internship for somebody who’s looking to have an internship. That’s a big thing. There’s social opportunity. There’s opportunity to learn something. So there’s all kinds of different opportunity, but it really is such a win win when you give someone an opportunity. Yeah.
Gretchen
And then you can also do it through donation like you could give to organizations that are about providing opportunity, like we always give to an organization called Bottom Line, that helps kids navigate the college process because so much opportunity opens up to you when you have a college degree. But there’s all kinds of training, so you could support that. Tating and reviewing.
Gretchen
I mean, we all go on and on about rate review and it’s we all get those messages and it’s tiresome. But people, they want it because it makes a difference.
Elizabeth
We are all annoyed also by all those emails we get asking for a rating and reviewing, but many times it is from like a small company where it really matters. So there’s a lot of ways to do this.
Gretchen
I think back to your point about inviting another parent to join you on a committee at your child’s school or something. I think also sometimes people are eager for an opportunity. They would like to be asked, but they don’t know how to step in or they feel unsure. I think sometimes people are just waiting to be asked. Yeah, and so you don’t want to badger people saying join, join, join if they’re especially like an Obliger who’s going to feel a lot of pressure to join.
Gretchen
But on the other hand, I think sometimes people are a little bit hesitant. And if you say, hey, is this something that would be interesting to you, they might jump at it or think of it as being something they could take advantage of that they hadn’t thought of themselves as a candidate for?
Elizabeth
Absolutely. Yeah. Gretch, there are a few things that people appreciate more than an opportunity.
Gretchen
Yeah, I mean, Elizabeth, you told me that in the past, and that’s John in my list of observations for my sister the sage, because it’s so true. And as you say, it’s the win win win. It’s the right thing to do to help people get opportunities. But it also makes us feel happier because two could feel good, really works.
Gretchen
And if you’re feeling low, sometimes you can make yourself feel better by doing a good deed and something like making introductions or thinking about a way to give somebody an opportunity rating, reviewing, donating, all these things are a way to make ourselves happier as well by making other people happier, which is one of the nicest ways to make ourselves feel happier.
Elizabeth
Yes. And as someone got whose job is solely dependent on various opportunities, I’m a big advocate for this.
Gretchen
Absolutely. So let us know if you do try this at home and how being a source of opportunity works for you. And what did you do? What kind of opportunity did you think about? Let us know on Instagram. Tik Tok, Twitter, Facebook. Drop us an email at podcast@grethenrubin.com or as always you can go to the shownotes.
Gretchen
This is episode 428 so go to happiercast.com/428 for everything related to this episode.
Elizabeth
Coming up, we’ve got a happiness hack about how to reduce screen time. But first, this break.
[Music]
Gretchen
One aim that a lot of people have for happiness is being better able at stepping away from our phones. And today we have a couple of hacks about making our phone less enticing.
Elizabeth
Gretchen this comes from Victoria who’s a 24 year old aspiring movie director from L.A. She said after learning about being a Rebel, I discovered I respond to instant gratification. Social media has been super detrimental to my happiness, so much so that I almost bought a flip phone the other day. Instead, I found a free app called Screen Zen.
Elizabeth
It makes me wait 20 seconds. You can set the amount of time you want to open the app of my choice. You can also limit how many times a day you open an app and for how long. I’m at four out of ten opens today for Tumblr. That’s four five minute intervals. If I want to keep scrolling after 5 minutes, I have to wait another 30 seconds.
Elizabeth
It’s honestly changed my life. I’ve also deleted Instagram, Facebook, etc.. The nail in the coffin for reducing my screen time and making me happier has been changing my phone display to be entirely grayscale. It works wonders. I never look at my phone unless necessary. If I want to look at a nice picture my friends sent me, I have a quick shortcut to turn on the color.
Elizabeth
With the click of the home button. I turn it off again, almost immediately.
Gretchen
I think this is so many great ideas. I talk about using grayscale in my book Life in Five Senses, because it’s so effective. It’s really much less fun and much more onerous to use your phone in grayscale. And it’s very, very easy to do. Like Victoria said, she can just flip right back and forth between us. It’s not a big deal.
Elizabeth
And then it’s also using strategies, Gretchen, that you’ve talked about strategy of inconvenience and the strategy of distraction.
Gretchen
Yeah, these are the strategies from the book Better than Before. And yeah, by making it inconvenient and allowing yourself to be pulled away from it, you just make it a lot harder to just keep that intense focus on your phone, which is so detrimental to so many people’s happiness. I mean, I think another thing is, as a rebel, she’s found ways that she’s not saying no.
Gretchen
She’s not getting rid of her phone. She’s not I guess she did delete some apps, but this is definitely about freedom, choice, being in control, which are values that really appeal to the rebel sensibility. So it’s not like denying yourself something. It’s more like I’m in charge. My phone is not the boss of me. I found the ways to make it work.
Elizabeth
Yes. So thank you, Victoria. Great ideas.
Gretchen
And now it’s time for a deep dive. We’re going to do a deep dive into the Calendar of Catalysts with dates inspired by the five senses.
Elizabeth
Love that. Now, Gretch, explain for anyone who doesn’t know what the Calendar of Catalysts is.
Gretchen
So we are big fans of using dates as reminders to reflect. So as a catalyst for stepping back and thinking about what we want. So you could use New Year’s Day to think about what you want from your life. You can use Labor Day to think about your work life. You can use Halfway Day on July 2nd to think about how you’re doing on your one word theme, or you’re 23 in 23 list, or your #GoOutsideIn23.
Gretchen
And I think that I’m always collecting these dates because I think everybody has different ones that work for them. So for instance, one that’s coming up for me is May 5th, which for me is like a five senses day because it’s 5/5. So it’s reminding me this is a day for the rest of my life that I want to remember how grateful I am and how much I appreciate and enjoy my five senses because it’s 5/5.
Gretchen
So I asked social media for other dates that you could add to the calendar. That would also remind you to think about one or all of your senses. And people came up with the most imaginative ideas.
Elizabeth
Yes, Sarah had one for taste, which was 2/8 February 8th. She said a meal is better shared with another person too, and they ate. Love is so fun.
Gretchen
Kelly suggested October 4th for hearing because that’s 10/4 because with this CB lingo, that’s like message heard, message received. So ten four thought that was good.
Elizabeth
And then Amanda had 12/12 for sight because the eye doctor always says better one or two during the refraction.
Gretchen
And Candy suggests for smell using the Rose Bowl parade because of the roses, which is fun. Now, we’ve already passed the Rose Bowl Parade for 2023. That was in January 2nd. But this is something that you can think about every year when the Rose Bowl parade rolls around. Again, thinking about the sense of smell.
Elizabeth
Yes. And then Randy pointed out there are a few dates that go with senses. World Hearing Day is March 3rd, and that raises awareness about preventing hearing loss and promotes ear and hearing care across the world. And then, Gretch, the World Taste and Smell Association announced that September 14th is a worldwide appreciation day for the senses of taste and smell and Gretch, National Sense of Smell.
Elizabeth
Day is the last Saturday of April. So it just passed on April 29th. So I love that there are these global. Yeah, five senses days.
Gretchen
Exactly. So if you have any more, let us know. I am adding to the calendar catalysts all the time because I think I want as many things there because obviously people will pick and choose what they like. If you want to get a PDF of the calendar or just check it out, you can go to happiercast.com/catalysts and let us know any more suggestions.
Gretchen
Those are so fun. Yes. And now for a listener question.
Elizabeth
This week, it comes from Sam, who says, Ever since I did #Read21in21, I’ve been reading much more regularly and it makes me so happy. I’ve noticed that when I don’t get much reading done, it’s because I don’t know what book to read next. You two never seem to have trouble figuring out your next book.
Elizabeth
How do you find suggestions? Do you often read books that you recommend to each other? I have one friend who recommends books often, and it took me a while to realize I don’t like her taste, so I’m trying to give myself lots of ways to get ideas.
Gretchen
So this is such a fun question.
Elizabeth
Oh yes. And there are so many ways.
Gretchen
Yeah. So, Elizabeth, what are some of the ways you do?
Elizabeth
Well, one way I get suggestions is, Gretch, you know, my sister in law, Olivia Fierro, has a podcast called Olivia’s Book Club, which is every week. So she has lots of book suggestions and she and I like a lot of the same kinds of books. So I usually know she loves something, I’ll love it. Yeah. Also, Gretchen listeners Happier and Happier in Hollywood listeners suggest lots of books to Sarah and me and often those I will read and then another time I get a lot of recs is when I hike with my friends.
Elizabeth
So you know, that’s just a lot of time to chat and we will always talk about books and television shows and then I love I can go off and read a book and then talk about it with them on another hike.
Gretchen
Well, I would agree. I would say family and friends for sure. Both of our parents read a lot, so I get a lot of reading recommendations from them, and friends. I read a lot of in three book clubs, so that’s a lot of recommendations. I love roundups and best of’s like if you’re looking online or in articles, magazines and newspapers.
Gretchen
I love the podcast Backlisted. I highly recommend that, which is about backlist books, meaning books that were published, you know, a while back, not new books and same thing. There’s a quarterly called Slightly Fox, those focus on things that came out many, many years ago. But you know, it’s new to you if you haven’t read it. Yes.
Gretchen
Yeah. So magazines and newspapers. But one of the things that’s been great about my book tour is I’m hanging out with all these booksellers and I always say, What have you read what’s great, and what are people really excited about? And so they always have so many suggestions and they often know about books before they’ve come out too.
Gretchen
So they can say like Ohh, everybody’s really excited about this book. So I’ve been I’ve been writing down a lot of recommendations. I’ve been buying books along the way, which is sort of been a problem because I had packed my carry on bag to the gills and then I ended up buying some books and it’s like, okay, I learned my lesson, do not do that.
Gretchen
I had to jam all these books into my backpack and lug it around.
Elizabeth
And that’s so funny. I saw a photo of you with a stack of books at a bookstore online, and I thought to myself, How is she carrying all of these books? So you couldn’t resist.
Gretchen
Yes. Yes. So it’s fun to hear how people get ideas. So if you have other sources that you love, New York Times Book Review podcast is great. This is a great thing to have a list to recommend.
Elizabeth
Also, you and I were talking about as staff picks, oh, at the bookstore staff and especially at like an indie bookstore, there will be staff picks and it might even say what it is, sort of love this page turner or love this thoughtful meditation on life or whatever. Yeah, and those are people who read a lot so well.
Gretchen
And I just find that if somebody is really, really highly recommended a book to me, there’s a level of quality below which it doesn’t go. Yes, even if it’s on my favorite book, if somebody loves it, it’s probably pretty good.
Elizabeth
Yes. Yes.
Gretchen
What a fun question. More reading for all.
Elizabeth
Okay. Coming up, I have a repeat demerit. I think they’re almost always repeats, Gretch. But first, this break.
[Music]
Gretchen
Okay, It’s time for demerits and gold starts. And Elizabeth, what is this repeat demerit of which you speak?
Elizabeth
Okay, Gretch, I have not been doing my night time flossing. Now I know I floss religiously in the morning. Now I know a lot of people think, well, that should be enough once a day. But without giving people, you know, more information than they want, my gums are such that I need to floss twice a day. My doctor, my my specialist dentist is very clear on this.
Elizabeth
And I think the problem is it took me decades to get to a point where I absolutely 100% floss once a day. So now the updates are twice a day. Yeah, feels super onerous, so I’m working on it.
Gretchen
So can I come out with my happiness bully suggestions.
Elizabeth
Please.
Gretchen
So here’s one thing. What? Something that you absolutely, positively have to do before you go to bed.
Elizabeth
Brush my teeth.
Gretchen
So just say I can’t brush my teeth unless I floss. Mm.
Elizabeth
That’s a good idea.
Gretchen
You can do that in the morning too, to just kind of solidify the connection, because I’m sure you’re like, I’m so tired, I can’t floss.
Elizabeth
Yes, that’s it.
Gretchen
So you’re like, if you’re too tired to floors, you’re too tired to brush your teeth. Wish you could go to bed without brushing your teeth one time. That’s not a big deal. But you don’t want to. Right.
Elizabeth
Right.
Gretchen
You’ll want to brush your teeth.
Elizabeth
Okay, I’m going to try this. That’s a good idea. I’ll let you know how it’s going.
Gretchen
So that’s the strategy of pairing, right? The strategy of pairing. A lot of times people do something that they like. I’ll listen to a great podcast while I walk, but you can also do it like I did in college, which is I can’t take a shower unless I exercise that day. Where you force yourself to do something because there’s something else you really want to do.
Elizabeth
That makes sense.
Gretchen
You got me flossing. You know, you get a gold star for that because I really had not been flossing. This is too much.
Elizabeth
You’ve got to floss.
Gretchen
Information about flossing, but now I am flossing and that’s thanks to you. So you’re adding to the universal level of flossing.
Elizabeth
Okay, grunts, what’s your gold star?
Gretchen
Okay, I want to give a gold star to you and Sarah, your writing partner. And in Happier in Hollywood, you’ve talked often about the fact that there could very possibly be a strike a writers strike in Hollywood. And that is part of what you’re thinking about, is that you’re making plans about how you might write a thriller and you’re it seems like you’re very creatively engaged.
Gretchen
And this is something that’s really fun for you to think about doing, and it’s something that you could do if the strike happens. Because of the strike happens, obviously there’s going to be a lot of work that you’re not going to be able to do. What the Gold Star is for exactly is you have learned from the past.
Gretchen
And I think that as we go through life, our big hope is always that we will learn from the past, that we will gain and wisdom as experience as we move through the world and things happen to us. But very often we don’t learn from the past. We don’t remember what we should remember. We don’t think about it.
Gretchen
And the fact is, the two of you went through a writers strike before, which was a huge deal. When was that, Elizabeth?
Elizabeth
Yes, 2007.
Gretchen
It was just it was huge. I mean, it was a tsunami in your life, in your work life. I mean, dad still has the sweatshirt. Yeah, the strike sweatshirt that he wears out all the time. But the thing is, you learn you were like, okay, if it happens, we can anticipate what that will feel like. Let’s have a plan in place.
Gretchen
Action is an antidote to anxiety. Let’s think of a way that we could use that time creatively and well if it happens. And I just think that’s such a great example of learning from the past.
Elizabeth
Yes, we were so sort of blown out by the initial one that it didn’t even occur to us to try to do anything constructive with the time. So this time, obviously we’ll be picketing. But we also, if if it happens, want to use the time for something. Yeah. So thank you. Yes. And I, I hope it doesn’t happen.
Elizabeth
But if it does, we have a plan.
Gretchen
And I’m sure that makes you feel less.
Elizabeth
Anxious. It does 100% makes me feel. I’m still anxious, but it helps a lot.
Gretchen
Well, Goldstar to you, Goldstar to Sarah. The resources for this week. Remember that I have my Moment of Happiness newsletter. If you love quotations the way I do and I. I love putting quotations out into the world. So this is a great relief to my sensibilities, is to have a way to share them systematically. You can sign up for that free newsletter at gretchenrubin.com/quotations and all it is is just a beautiful quotation every weekday in your email.
Gretchen
Right. And what are we reading? Elizabeth, What are you reading.
Elizabeth
I am listening to I Have Some Questions For You by Rebecca McKay.
Gretchen
And I’m reading The Glass Hotel by Emily Saint John Mendel. And speaking of reading or listening to an audiobook in your feed on May 6th, listeners will get a bonus episode, which is an audio excerpt from Life in Five Senses. So if you’re curious to have a listen, you will just get that automatically. You don’t have to do anything and that is me.
Gretchen
I’m going to narrate it. So you will have that in your feed.
Elizabeth
Yay.
Gretchen
And that’s it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Be a source of opportunities. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.
Elizabeth
Thank you to our executive producer Chuck Reed and everyone at Cadence13. Get in touch. Gretchen’s on Instagram and Tik Tok @gretchenrubin and I’m on Instagram at @lizcraft. Our email address is podcast@gretchenrubin.com.
Gretchen
And if you like the show, please be sure to tell a friend! Rate, review and follow us wherever you listen to your podcast.
Elizabeth
Until next week, I’m Elizabeth Craft.
Gretchen
And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.
[Music]
Gretchen
So listen, I’m having a little bit of clutter-clearing remorse. It seems like sometimes when we clutter clear, we get rid of one too many things like you lost that nightshirt that you loved.
Elizabeth
That’s right.
Gretchen
Last time. This time you didn’t. You lost the link to the podcast recording.
Elizabeth
Yeah, I’d written down on a post it. Gretchen what day and my email to go to to find the link to hook up to the podcast. And I think that got tossed. So I had to do a major search because I couldn’t remember.
Gretchen
I, I feel a little bad because we were definitely tossing things fast.
Elizabeth
And easily fix easily fixed.
[Music]
Gretchen
From the onward project.