Update

We’re going to do an “Ask Us Anything” in upcoming episode 438. Ask us anything about writing!  Send us your questions.

The Five-Senses Journals are here and ready to ship! I’m very excited to see these journals go out into the world — I’ve never seen anything else like them.

Try This at Home

To make a good connection with a stranger, trying talking more than you listen. 

It turns out that the “reticence bias” isn’t very effective!

If you’d like to read the research, it’s here.

Happiness Hack

Before an important event or meeting, eat something ahead of time so you aren’t distracted by being hungry—even if that event or meeting is happening over a meal.

Happiness Stumbling Block

Never put anything in an email or text that you don’t want to see in public.

We mention the Enron Corpus — a cautionary example.

Deep Dive into Positive Trends

On social media, I asked, “What’s a positive trend that we should all pay more attention to?” We received many great answers:

• People becoming sober-curious or skipping alcohol altogether. Mocktails and good quality non alcoholic beer are growing in popularity
• I think we’re becoming more emotionally intelligent as a culture and more open about mental health.
• More and more places are dog friendly.
• Much less acceptance of offensive and degrading language as a synonym for “stupid.”
• Fathers being more involved in household management and raising kids.
• Body positivity.
• The percentage of Americans who support marriage equality is at an all-time high.
• People smoke less.
• Teenage pregnancy is way down.
• Millennials are generally less materialistic than prior generations.
• Recycling is a greater priority than in the past.
  
• Therapy is becoming far more normal.
• Spanking or hitting your kids is less common and acceptable.
• It’s huge how people can work from home much more than before the pandemic.
• Admitting we may have been wrong and are seeking ways to do better.
• People seem to be getting the message about bees.
• Smoking in public places is mostly a thing of the past.
• The development of things like GoFundMe, etc., help people take action to help one another in ways they could not before.
• Language learning resources are incredible these days.
  
• I think we, as a society, are getting better at communicating, setting and accepting others boundaries, understanding that my way might not work for everyone (i.e., less shoveling advice as truth).
• More people are getting the help they need in ADHD. I was diagnosed as an adult, and it’s changed my life for the better. 

Demerits & Gold Stars

Gretchen’s Demerit: I posted online about two of my favorite science-fiction short stories, and I misattributed one! The two stories: “The Nine Billion Names of God” by Arthur C. Clarke and “The Last Question” by Isaac Asimov (not Robert Heinlein).

Elizabeth’s Gold Star: She gives herself a gold star  for hitting her “Fryman Fifty” on her “23 for 23 list” from her 23 in 2023 Happier Trifecta—right at the Halfway Day of July 2.

Resources

Check out the updated Calendar of Catalysts — now, with more ways to use it.

What We’re Reading

• Elizabeth: Burn It Down by Maureen Ryan (Amazon, Bookshop) 
• Gretchen: I’m just about to start re-reading The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James (Amazon, Bookshop) 

437

[Music]

Gretchen

Hello and welcome to a Happier, a podcast where we talk about strategies and suggestions for how to make our lives happier, healthier, more productive and more creative. This week we talk about how to make a better connection when talking to somebody we don’t know, and we do a deep dive on people’s responses to the question, what’s a positive trend that we should all appreciate but perhaps overlook?

Gretchen

I’m Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, the five senses, human nature. I’m in New York City in my little home office. And joining me today from L.A. is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. My sister the sage.

Elizabeth

That’s me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer living in L.A. and Gretch. I’m glad you think I’m a sage. I don’t feel like one all the time, but I appreciate that you give me that title.

Gretchen

Well, I think that’s an aspect of a sage, as they don’t think that they’re a sage. I think if you think that you’re a sage, you’re probably not as sage like as you think. So that’s a good sign. I take that as confirmation. A few announcements and updates before we launch and we are going to be putting a bonus episode in your feed.

Gretchen

That is the recording of the commencement address that I gave it, my daughter’s high school. Many people have asked to listen to that. I think it’s going to air July 15th. Don’t hold me to that 100%. But we’re getting that ready to go and that will be dropped in your feed as a bonus.

Elizabeth

Yes. And Gretch, I was there, so I can attest it is well worth listening to. Excellent commencement address.

Gretchen

Well, thank you.

Elizabeth

And, Gretchen, we have another update, which is that we’re going to do an ask us anything about writing episode and episode 438 so you can ask us anything about writing how we get ideas, routines, the best tools, books that we like about writing, anything that you want to know about writing, how Gretchen went from being a lawyer to a writer, all of that.

Elizabeth

Send us your questions. And then, speaking of writing Gretch, you have a new journal?

Gretchen

Yes. I am so excited about this journal because it’s not like anything I’ve ever seen before. It’s a Five Senses journal. Big surprise, because I had sort of cobbled together my own Five Senses journal just in a regular blank notebook. But this is beautifully made. It gives you a place to write your most notable impression for a day.

Gretchen

Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. It’s a six month journal because it’s five senses plus the sensorium, which I think is nice. Like I think six months is kind of maybe like a very manageable time. And then if you want to keep going, if you want to do the whole year, you keep going. You just can do another journal.

Gretchen

They’re not tied to any particular date. And there’s also there’s space for you to do a five senses portrait. It’s just really fun and I’ll post some photos in the show notes and if you want to check it out, it is good to have your cars.com slashed journals and you’ll see. But I’m really excited to get these into people’s hands because I really have never seen anything like this before.

Gretchen

You know what’s funny is also kind of like your gratitude journal, because I’m a person who is very annoyed by my gratitude journal when I kept one for the Happiness Project writing. But this serves as a gratitude journal without getting me annoyed the way that one did, which is something I didn’t expect to find.

Elizabeth

Well, I saw you did a five census portrait of Barnaby the other day and I appreciated that.

Gretchen

They are for his birthday. Yes. Yeah, very cute. Yeah. And now I can put it in a journal and really keep it as a keepsake instead of just having it as a document in my computer, which is what the fate of so many things that I, that I, that I write, which is something we could talk about in our ask us anything.

Gretchen

What do you do with all that random stuff you write? I know you and I both struggled with that. Okay. This week our try this at home tip this I really am into this strategy, which is if you want to make a good connection with a stranger, talk more than you listen.

Elizabeth

Yeah. Now, this is surprising. Yes, I think we all think the opposite. So explain this.

Gretchen

Yes. Okay. So here I want to give a caveat, which is this is a new research and the way that they did it, there’s all kinds of like, well, this and that and the other thing. So I would not say like this is a scientific truth, but what I will say is reading this made me realize that I’ve always kind of questioned the reticence bias without realizing that I was not convinced that it was actually working.

Gretchen

Okay. So the reticence bias is something that this research suggests that many people have, and this is a belief that we will be perceived to be more likable and interesting if we speak less than half the time. So this is the idea. Ask questions, draw people out, let others speak more. Hold back yourself. And that’s how you’re going to make you’re going to engage most effectively with a stranger.

Gretchen

But at least in this study and again, there’s a lot of caveats that you can read. If you go look at the study yourself. It turned out that speaking more than half the time made people find the speakers more interesting and likable.

Elizabeth

So this is fascinating. Yes. Can I just give you a real life example of this the other day? Yeah. So I was meeting a young writer who wanted to talk to me about something, and we made a date to meet on the picket line. Mm. And what does this one does? So we ended up walking for quite a while and talking for quite a while.

Elizabeth

And normally you could think in that situation I would be doing most of the talking because I’m the more experienced writer. Right. But it so happened that she had had a job not as a writer, but on set of the show Jury Duty, which I was just very interested in. And so I was asking her a ton of questions, and then it came out that she was a child actor, which I was very interested in.

Elizabeth

So then I was asking her all about that. So it ended up being that she did a lot of the talking. And you’re absolutely right, I had the best impression of her. I’m like, I love this young writer. She’s so interesting. And it is, I think, because like, I feel like I really got to know her and sort of know her world.

Elizabeth

Know, I got to know a lot about her work ethic because she was talking about work. So it was really interesting that had I just gone had been like, well, this is how I got here and this is what I did and this is what you could do and blah, blah, blah, she would just be another young writer I met with who kind of just floated by, you know what I mean?

Elizabeth

Because I meet with a lot of young writers and have a lot of the same conversations.

Gretchen

Right. And you could imagine that this young writer, if she had the reticence bias, she would think, oh, when Elizabeth is asking me these questions, I should answer briefly. I should constantly deflect. I should constantly draw her out trying to make her be the one in the driver’s seat of the conversation, thinking that that was the best way to engage with you and to seem likable and interesting.

Gretchen

But in fact, she was willing to answer at length, and that is what really served her and you and the conversation. Now, what was interesting is in the research, they speculated that this idea that we should listen more than we speak came from kind of a lack of confidence in our own speaking. I don’t think that’s true. And again, this is like not me as a scientist, This is me as a street scientist just talking about my own.

Gretchen

But I think that the reticence bias comes from this advice that we get all the time, which is you should listen, you should draw people out. People like to hear the sound of their own voice. Yes. And it’s funny because at the end of the study, they mentioned kind of the Dale Carnegie advice about how to win friends and influence people, but they don’t seem to acknowledge that that idea is really behind people’s behavior.

Gretchen

But I think that it is or that it just is polite. It’s like if you’re going to be polite, if you’re sitting next to somebody at a dinner party, the polite thing to do is to, like, constantly try to be putting the spotlight on them. And here’s the thing. Once I read this, I’m like, I 100% believe in this.

Gretchen

Again, apart from like the laboratory of it all, just in my experience, it doesn’t work very well. You need to be in the spotlight yourself. You need to talk now, whether it’s like how much is the percentage is right. You know, they did like 30%, 40%, 50, 60, 70%. Turns out over 70%. No, that’s not good, because then you’re just like monologuing.

Gretchen

So there is an upper limit to this. But I do think that it’s just like your experience on the picket line. When I think about when I’ve engaged better with people, it’s when I do contribute more and talk more, you know, put forth my own opinions, even in situations where it’s clearly, as in the case of your example, where one person is sort of like in the spotlight it in the nature of things, and even more so when it’s something like a dinner party where we’re supposed to be here having a conversation, like why am I saying you should be the one talking and I should be the one listening?

Gretchen

And that’s polite. I mean, that can’t be true, right? Because then. Right, both people can’t talk less.

Elizabeth

Right? I think it is about making that real connection. Yeah. And it’s by both I mean, ideally, both people are talking and sharing something real. Yes. And connecting. I will add a caveat to this, which is probably don’t need to go on about your dreams at length, but let’s not do that now.

Gretchen

Let’s not do that. Let’s not do.

Elizabeth

That. There are certain things people don’t want to hear about. Yeah, but there’s a vulnerability to talking. I mean, I know sometimes if I feel down or tired, I don’t want to talk a lot where I want to be questioning. This is probably the reason why I feel so connected to the people I hike with though, Gretch, because we do it a lot.

Elizabeth

People sort of take turns talking, you know what I mean? At length, right? You do hear real stuff going on in their lives. You know what I mean? You can really explain what’s happening. You know, one week it’ll be someone talking more and another week someone else. And then over time, you really are connected, right?

Gretchen

I mean, because when you speak more, the other person is going to learn more about you. That increases the feeling of similarity. Like we’re like and that makes us easier. Like, as you said, the feeling of vulnerability, that sense of connection and sharing. Also, it takes work to have conversation. And so maybe part of this is some people like they don’t want all the burden on them, right?

Gretchen

They would like for you to be talking some of the time because that’s time when you’re listening, not talking. And I think your point is really important, which is that this is not about being fake. This is not about, okay, what role do you apply so that you can charm people with a total lack of sincerity? I think what’s interesting about this is I really think I had a misconception of how to approach a conversation with a stranger in a way that would help make that connection.

Gretchen

But as you say, obviously you’re going have more of a connection if both people are getting a deeper sense of each other rather than one person even being invited by the other out of politeness to kind of take the lead.

Elizabeth

Yeah, it’s funny because I think everyone knows this rules so much that, you know, ask questions. People have to talk about themselves, that they also recognize other’s doing it. 100 words that can feel fake in and of itself.

Gretchen

I have so I’ve had that where somebody was like and it was so obviously just like this perfunctory question.

Elizabeth

Yeah.

Gretchen

I was just like, You don’t want to know about me. Yeah, we’re here to answer your questions. Yeah, I think you have to be very that is true. That’s like be very wary of.

Elizabeth

So but it’s really just comes down to just connecting with people, right?

Gretchen

It’s not about talking is not going to get in the way of that. So let us know if you do try this at home. Did you believe in the reticence bias the way I did? Do you find that talking more in a conversation with a stranger helps you to connect better? We are very interested in hearing about this.

Gretchen

I will post a link to the study if you want to like dig into the nuts and bolts of the study. That’s always interesting to do. Let us know on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, Facebook, Drop us an email at podcast@gretchenrubin.com. Or as always you can go to the show notes this is happiercast.com/437 for everything related to the episode.

Elizabeth

Coming up we’ve got a first things first happiness hack. But first this break. 

[Music]

Okay, Gretch, it is time for this week’s Happiness Hack. What is it?

Gretchen

Okay, so somebody told me this hack, and I said, Wow, I do this hack all the time. But to him, it was kind of a revelation, so I thought it was worth mentioning. Oh, and it’s about kind of connecting, too. So it’s related to the try this at home. Let’s say you’re having an important lunch meeting with somebody where it’s like very important thing or you really need to get something accomplished or it’s something difficult that you need to raise, or it’s a breakfast with somebody that you’re meeting for the first time.

Gretchen

Whatever. Don’t go hungry. Do not enter that situation hungry. Eat something before you go. And maybe you don’t suffer that much from hunger like, as you know, a lot of I get really hungry. I get like.

Elizabeth

Just.

Gretchen

Really hungry. And if I’m really, really hungry, that will distract me. If I’m in a situation where what’s really important to me in this situation is not like, Oh, it’s so fun that we’re having this meal, it’s, Oh, I really need to have this important conversation with you. I need to keep my wits about me.

Elizabeth

Because I never would have thought of this. I mean, so I would think of it like before your commencement address. I would say make sure you eat something before that. Right. But I wouldn’t think that it could be a good idea to eat before a meal. Right. But it does make sense to have a little something so that the food is not the main issue.

Elizabeth

So that you’re not depleted before this, interesting, whatever it is that needs to take place.

Gretchen

Because sometimes people take a really long time to order or the food takes a really long time to come.

Elizabeth

Will also could it? Sometimes it can be hard to eat if you’re having a conversation. Well, you’re sort of the one speaking of who’s talking, the one who’s having to do a lot of talking, it can be hard to get a bite in. Yeah, that’s happened to me many times.

Gretchen

That’s an excellent, excellent point. And a lot of times I’ll do like a speaking event where they’ll be like a lunch and then everybody eats and then I speak. But what I find is I don’t like to eat right before I speak because I’m worried like, Well, what if I get salad dressing on my outfit or like, I don’t feel hungry, but then I might feel hungry, like when I’m up speaking.

Gretchen

So again, in that kind of situation, I’m like, Don’t go in there hungry there. I don’t even plan to eat the meal. But I do think if there is a meal wrapped into something that feels high stakes, as you said, first things first. What is the most important thing in this situation? The most important situation is whatever encounter is going to happen.

Gretchen

The food is not what’s most important. And so let me make sure that I’m not in a place where I have to be very, very focused on the food because I’m very distracted by being hungry.

Elizabeth

You know? So good advice.

Gretchen

And now for a happiness stumbling block. Okay. This is one that we all know but we all need to be reminded of, which is never put anything in an email or in a text that you would be reluctant to have revealed in public.

Elizabeth

Gretchen It’s a rule that you know, we know and yes, and yet yet.

Gretchen

And we all do it. We all do it. We all do it. Okay. One of the principles of teaching is that it’s very good to give people examples when things go wrong because people will agree to a principle in theory. But then when you say, okay, this is how I can look when it goes wrong, it makes a much bigger impression.

Gretchen

So I offer for your contemplation in the Enron corpus.

Elizabeth

What is the Enron Corpus? Okay.

Gretchen

So if you do not remember your corporate scandals the way Liz it does, because Elizabeth loves nothing more than a corporate scandal. Enron was this enormous, famous, hugely successful energy trading company based in Houston. And it perpetrated one of the biggest accounting frauds in history. And in 2001, it collapsed. Top executives were convicted of fraud. Something like $74 billion were lost.

Gretchen

But what’s interesting and relevant here is that in 2001, as part of the investigation of what was going on, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, which is known as FERC, seized the email folders of about 150, mostly high ranking Enron employees. And what happened? One would never have expected, which was that all those emails, more than 600,000 of them became available to the public in kind of an odd, weird way.

Gretchen

That probably wouldn’t happen now, but it did. And this is studied all the time for all kinds of purposes because most emails are private. And so this is like a treasure trove of people getting to see how actual people actually use email. And so it’s been sort of societally valuable. But for the people in there, I’m just saying go to Enron hyphen mail dot com and you can look up the people and it’s like, Hey, my granddaughter was born yesterday.

Gretchen

Here’s a photo. I mean, it’s like it is your emails, it is your emails are there. They’re searchable. Your names are there. Nothing’s redacted as far as I could see. And most of these people had nothing to do with a fraudulent behavior. They were just innocent bystanders.

Elizabeth

Yeah. And that’s the thing to remember, is that you’re like, I never get embroiled in anything. I’m not going to do anything illegal. I have nothing to worry about. You, Your texts suits and emails, yes. Can be gotten because you are just someone who was nearby. Yes. Right. So it’s not enough that you aren’t going to do anything wrong or be investigated.

Elizabeth

Yes. You know, others can be around.

Gretchen

You know, it’s sort of like what our father always says about driving the thing of a driving is like, even if you’re not the dummy, somebody else can drive like a dummy and you get hit in the accident. You have to remember, you have to drive with other people’s mistakes in mind.

Elizabeth

Yes. And what I always think about this, the texts and emails, is it’s not that I have written something that’s, you know, illegal that would get me into, quote, trouble. All right. But I may have said something. Right. Not the nicest thing or something revealing about myself to Sarah that I wouldn’t want someone else, you know, like, oh, I got sick last night and here are the details.

Elizabeth

You just don’t want people knowing like, your personal thoughts about every little thing. It would be embarrassing.

Gretchen

Right? And this might make us sound super paranoid and, you know, because you’re like, why? You can’t tell your own writing partner about how you threw up last night? Okay, fine. That’s right. But the fact is, we won’t go into the details. But Elizabeth, you and I both know people personally where this has happened and it is not a happy situation.

Gretchen

It’s nothing that they could have predicted. It’s nothing that you would have seen coming. They did nothing wrong. And yet it’s embarrassing.

Elizabeth

Yeah, it’s embarrassing. And just, you don’t want to be in that situation. And yeah, it’s hard with Sarah because, you know, we are texting all day long every day and it’s a lot of how we communicate, but we are trying to call each other more when we have just anything, you know, just anything that is questionable.

Gretchen

Right. Well, maybe you want to just, like, rant on about an executive. Yeah. And you just want to like you want to be able to just, like, let loose. And it’s not that it’s anything that’s that would be objectionable or illegal, but it’s just like it wouldn’t make you feel good if you got out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gretchen

And I say this to myself all the time. I said this to my daughters, Don’t be impulsive, Don’t write in anger, don’t rant on and on. Just don’t write anything that you wouldn’t want to see reported someplace. Because you know what if you end up in the Enron corpus or whatever the version of that is.

Elizabeth

Yes. And of course, now I want to go read all those emails.

Gretchen

I’ve got to say, it’s fascinating. Else I got to say, it’s fascinating, right, because I don’t know these people. So to me, they’re like imaginary characters. But I can imagine if it was, you know, me or one of my friends or somebody I worked with, it’s just, just it’s just not what you want anyway.

Elizabeth

Yeah.

Gretchen

Good reminder in now to take us up. This is such a wonderful thing to do. A deep dive on what is on social media. I asked, What’s a positive trend that we should all pay more attention to? And what I suggested as as an example, was that I think people litter less than they used to in the past.

Gretchen

I was in the subway station the other day and I saw a person just like flat out litter, she had a box of kind of they kind of looked like Girl Scout cookies. And she pulled out the plastic tray inside and just like threw the cardboard box on the ground, I have to say, and this is embarrassing for me.

Gretchen

I just walked on by. Why didn’t I stop and pick up the box? You know? I mean, anyway, so the lesson learned, if you see somebody litter, pick it up yourself instead of just walking by. But I remember liking Mad Men when they just, like, left their picnic with all their stuff.

Elizabeth

People. Do you remember people driving down the freeway used to just toss fast food containers out the window without thinking twice about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Gretchen

So that’s a positive trend is. So here’s a deep dive into a lightning round of positive trends suggested by readers.

Elizabeth

Here’s the first one. People becoming sober curious or skipping alcohol altogether. Mocktails and good quality non-alcoholic beer are growing in popularity.

Gretchen

Yeah, So I think we’re becoming more emotionally intelligent as a culture and more open about mental health.

Elizabeth

Next one. More and more places are dog friendly. I don’t take my dog. She’s a homebody, but I love going into a brewery and having a beer next to a chill dog.

Gretchen

Much less acceptance of offensive and degrading language as a synonym for stupid. Absolutely.

Elizabeth

Fathers being more involved in household management and raising kids.

Gretchen

Mm. Body positivity?

Elizabeth

Yes. The percentage of Americans who support marriage equality is at an all time high.

Gretchen

Yes. Here’s one reader suggested several people smoke less. Teenage pregnancy is way down. Millennials are generally less materialistic than prior generations. Recycling is a greater priority than in the past.

Elizabeth

On the mental health topic, therapy is becoming far more normal.

Gretchen

And on the other hand, spanking or hitting your kids is less common and acceptable.

Elizabeth

Someone says it’s huge how people can work from home much more than before the pandemic.

Gretchen

Here’s a thoughtful one admitting we may have been wrong and are seeking ways to do better. I’m continually impressed by those of us breaking or trying to break or in the process of breaking generational cycles of not great things. This covers a multitude of behaviors that are needing to be changed.

Elizabeth

Interesting. Yes. Someone says people seem to be getting the message about bees the one who doesn’t know we need the bees.

Gretchen

We need the bees. Smoking in public places is mostly a thing of the past. True.

Elizabeth

Someone says, I think the development of things like Go fund me, etc. help people take action to help one another in ways they could not before.

Gretchen

I think of caring bridge too, sites like that. Yeah, very true. As someone says, language learning resources are incredible these days. Google Translate can listen and check your sentences. You can watch TV shows in other languages and there is an abundance of apps and teachers at the click of a button. Even if we don’t know a language we can translate so easily.

Elizabeth

Someone says, I think we as a society are getting better at communicating, setting and accepting others boundaries, understanding that my way might not work for everyone, i.e. less shoveling advice is truth. We talk about that a lot.

Gretchen

Yeah. And finally, more people are getting the help they need in ADHD. I was diagnosed as an adult and it’s changed my life for the better. These were so wonderful. There’s so many things to be thinking about and being grateful that things are changing for the better.

Elizabeth

Absolutely. Okay Gretch, coming up, I have a Fryman Canyon related gold star. But first, this break. 

[Music]

Okay Gretch, we’re back with the Demerits and Gold Stars. And this week you’re up with a happiness demerit.

Gretchen

Okay, now, I think this really got under my skin. This mistake I made. And maybe this is an upholder, because, you know, Upholders often really, really don’t like to make a mistake or do something wrong. So, okay, so I was posting on social media about two of my favorite very short science fiction stories. These are stories that I think about all the time.

Gretchen

And like one of them happened to cross my mind and I thought, Oh, it’s a fun thing to post. And so I did. And what I posted was that there are two short stories that I think about frequently the 9 billion names of God and The Last Question. Now, the problem is that I accurately said that the 9 billion names of God was by Arthur C.

Gretchen

Clarke, but for some reason I misattributed the last question. I said it was by Robert Heinlein. Actually, it’s by Isaac Asimov, which I knew perfectly well. You know, sometimes like your brain just, like, comes up with the wrong index card and you don’t even reflect on like, is this right? And of course, people in of me were like, actually, that was Isaac Asimov.

Gretchen

I was like, Oh, gosh, of course it was. So anyway, they’re both really great. They’re worth hunting down, if you like, a great, very short science fiction short story or just like any short story. But yeah. Isaac Asimov, credit to you.

Elizabeth

Nice. Okay, so now you’ll just take a beat to say, is that the person when you’re.

Gretchen

Yes. Yes. I’ll try to do better. Tell us if your gold stars. You’re wekk for a gold star.

Elizabeth

What? Go to. I am giving myself a gold star because, you know, and my 23 for 23 list, I had to do Fryman Canyon 50 times. I call it my Fryman 50, and I hit the Fryman 50.

Gretchen

Yay! Wow. Early. It’s not. It’s your write it half way day and you’ve done the whole 50.

Elizabeth

Yes. So now the question is, I said that I was going to go up to 80, but of course now I’m thinking, well, really, since it was that halfway day, I should try to make it to 100. So we’ll see how my pace is during the summer when it gets very, very hot it could slow down. But. Right. I’m definitely going for 80.

Gretchen

Oh, that’s great. Oh, well, Gold Star and also because of go outside 23 and 23, I mean, you know that that’s really also all that good outside time. So it’s like double the resources for this week. The calendar of Catalyst has been updated and now there’s this very cool integration about how you can use it in your own calendar.

Gretchen

If you go to happiercast.com/calendar, you can learn all about it. Elizabeth, what are we reading? What are you reading?

Elizabeth

I am reading Burn It Down by Maureen Ryan.

Gretchen

And I am just about to start rereading The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James. And that’s it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home to make a good connection with the stranger. Try talking more. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

Elizabeth

Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed and everyone at Cadence 13. Thank you to Bob Tabaddor for who is with us today. Get in touch. Gretchen’s on Instagram and TikTok at Gretchen Rubin and I’m on Instagram at Liz Craft. Our email address is podcast@gretchenrubin.com.

Gretchen

And if you like this show, please be sure to tell a friend. That is truly how most people discover our show.

Elizabeth

Until next week. I’m Elizabeth Craft..

Gretchen

And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward. Bob, it’s so fun to be talking to you again. It was before COVID when we were working with you the last time.

Bob

It’s been years. I missed you guys so much.

Elizabeth

I know. I know. But I love it because I listen to podcasts all the time and I always hear produced by Bob Tabaddor.

Bob

And I’m listening to you both every week. Wouldn’t miss it.

Gretchen

Oh, fun. 

[Music]

From the Onward Project.