Try This At Home

• Sometimes, we want to push ourselves—to go to sleep earlier, go for a daily walk, cook more, read to our kids every night.
• Sometimes, we want to deprive ourselves—to give up fast food, to stop watching TV after 9 p.m., to stop drinking caffeine.

Happiness Hack

Deep Dive: Listeners’ Ideas for “23 for 23” Lists

Demerits & Gold Stars

Resources

What we’re reading

• Elizabeth: Verity by Colleen Hoover (Amazon, Bookshop)
• Gretchen: The Lives We Actually Have: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days by Kate Bowler with Jessica Richie (Amazon, Bookshop)

Gretchen:
Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we discuss cutting-edge science, the wisdom of the ages, lessons from pop culture, and our own experiences in how to be happier. This week we’ll talk about why you might turn deprivation into indulgence (this was inspired by Dry January), and we’ll do a deep dive into listener suggestions for ways to approach making a 23 for 23 List.

[Music]

Gretchen:
I’m Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, the five senses, and human nature. I’m in New York City, and joining me today from L.A. is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. My sister the sage.

Elizabeth:
That’s me, Elizabeth Craft, a T.V. writer and producer living in L.A., and Gretchen, I am loving going #Outside23in23.

Gretchen:
Excellent. Yes, more outside for all. But Elizabeth, before we jump in, I saw that your spiritual teacher, Barbara Walters, died.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Oh, my gosh, Gretchen. And it was so nice. So many people reached out to me about it, who heard me talk about Barbara Walters on the podcast. And Sarah and I talk about her in episode 295 of Happier in Hollywood. What we took from her life. Yeah, very sorry about that. But glad that she existed.

Gretchen:
Yeah, big life. And she got so much recognition. It was really, really lovely to see that.

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Gretchen:
And a few more five senses ideas before we jump into the Try This at Home. Listeners had a couple suggestions about really how to take great pleasure in our five senses.

Elizabeth:
Yeah, Amanda says, “As I was baking cookies for the Christmas season, I used the large Lindt chocolate bars to chop up for my chocolate chip cookies. When you open the outer paper packaging, it tells you how to experience the chocolate with all five of your senses. Things like hearing the snap of the chocolate and seeing the markings on the bars. I think they are only inside the dark chocolate bars, but so fun to make the chocolate feel more luxurious and a mindful experience.”

Gretchen:
I love the idea that this product actually reminds you to use your five senses.. That’s great. We should all get reminders all the time. Love that.

Elizabeth:
So fun. And then Chris says, “Our family has started a new tradition of playing silly games during the holidays. Ages range from 8-76, so we keep it light to engage everyone. This year I designed a five senses challenge, so of course I thought of Gretchen.

Smell: Six jars with different smells. Cinnamon, ginger, coffee, onion, and oranges.

Taste: Candy taste test. Allergy-friendly, so we’re doing things like Skittles, Darts, Smarties, and Sweethearts.

Sight: Identify the Year of the Family holiday photo. I made small collages from 14 years of family Christmas pictures and put them in random order. We go from 0 to 5 kids slash grandkids during these years, so that will help people pinpoint the year.

Hearing: Name the next line of the Christmas song and the artist. I have YouTube links, but we’ll only play the audio, not show the video.

Touch: Build a tower of mini marshmallows and toothpicks. Their score will be the ranked towers by height.”

I mean, Gretchen, this is like she should sell this as a game.

Gretchen:
Absolutely. This is so next-level. First of all, this idea of dating the family photos, or like putting them in order, that sounds like so much fun. I would love to do that. Where you’re like looking at the outfits and the wallpaper and how tall the kids were. I think each one of these for each sense. This is such a great idea. I love this.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Amazing.

Gretchen:
Brilliant.

Elizabeth:
Chris, I hope that was a lot of fun.

Gretchen:
Yes. Okay. The Try This at Home tip this week is to turn deprivation into indulgence. This idea was inspired by my college roommate and the idea of Dry January. Because when you think about Dry January and you think about habits generally, often when we’re trying to change the habit, we’re asking something demanding of ourselves.

So sometimes we’re trying to push ourselves. So we want to go to sleep early or go for a daily walk, spend time outside, cook more, read to our kids every night. Sometimes we want to deprive ourselves. So we want to give up fast food. Stop watching T.V. after 9 p.m., stop drinking caffeine. And as I explore in my book about habit change Better Than Before, we really, really, really do not like to deprive ourselves generally.

And obviously this comes up in the context in a lot of places, but at Dry January.

Elizabeth:
Yes, and I’ve done Dry January before, Gretch. I’m not doing it this year because I already have just so many things I’m doing I didn’t want to add to it. I’m keeping track of so many things, but if you’ve decided to deprive yourself of something, it’s because you know you’ll be happier and healthier without it and you’ve made a good choice, but how can you make it easier?

Gretchen:
So one way to make deprivation easier is to turn deprivation into indulgence. So if you can’t afford it, you might throw a little money at the problem to make it easier to follow through.

Elizabeth:
Yeah. So what did your friend do for her Dry January that made it easier?

Gretchen:
Okay, so she told me about her whole plan. She wanted to do Dry January. She knew it would be tough for her. And it was even more than that because she wanted to use Dry January to kind of get her started to drink less in the future. She didn’t want to give up alcohol altogether, but she just she wanted to cut way back and this was a way to start.

So she thought of like, how can I use Dry January as an occasion of pleasure and interest, beauty, ritual? And I just thought it was so brilliant the way she went about it. So first of all, she did a lot of enjoyable research to figure out things she wanted to try, and then she did a lot of preparation, so she divided her bar area into mocktails and cocktails to house the different stuff.

And she bought new specialized glassware like margarita glasses and martini glasses. She got a lot of interesting mixers, along with items like ginger and lemon and fancy salt, anything, you know, to elevate the mocktail. She invited friends to come over and they did taste tests all these rounds where they were comparing different alcohol-free brands and mocktail combinations she found.

And so while she was making a lot of purchases, she wasn’t just buying stuff. She was elevating her experience with mindful attention, by engaging with other people, by learning and creating.

Elizabeth:
I love the idea, Gretch, that she was bonding with people as she was doing this because it was showing her, “Oh, hey, I don’t need to have alcohol with other people to have fun,” because the whole point of them being there was not to drink, so, you know, presumably probably everyone was having mocktails.

Gretchen:
Right. And so they had fun. And then with her husband, they had a nightly ritual of fixing a mocktail they both enjoyed. So again, it’s kind of replacing that and realizing you can still have that pleasant ritual. A moment of connection. She made her consumption more mindful, intentional. She also used her creativity because she came up with a lot of her own specialty drinks. So this was like a fun thing she was doing. So it had many different elements to it.

Elizabeth:
And then this approach of turning deprivation into indulgence can work for many aims, I would think.

Gretchen:
Oh, absolutely. I have another friend who wanted to give up coffee because it makes her really jittery, even though she loves it. So she decided, “No coffee, but I can indulge in tea paraphernalia.” So she’ll go to the fancy tea store and buy the fancy expensive tea. She has the fancy teapot. And she did the same thing with her in her cabinet. She made a special area dedicated to all her tea stuff. So again, that’s kind of elevating it by using your space to show like, “Oh, this is really valuable and interesting and exciting.” It’s an indulgence, it’s not a deprivation.

Elizabeth:
And then I can imagine if you want to stop eating out so much you could splurge on expensive or unusual ingredients, new tools that you might not have, some gorgeous cookbooks.

Gretchen:
Or like if you want to go to bed early, it’s like maybe you get new bedding or new nightclothes or you make your bed in the morning so it’s more fun to get into bed. You think of like, “Okay, how can I elevate this?”

Elizabeth:
So whatever the deprivation, when you’re thinking, “I can’t have this,” you can tell yourself, “but I get to have that.”

Gretchen:
Right. Now I think for a lot of people they might say, “Hey, this feels really self-indulgent.” You know, this is just consumerist. But as you were saying, a lot of times when we set off with these habits, it’s because we know that they’re going to really add to our happiness. So this is a good place to spend your time and your money and your energy if you can afford it.

And the fact is, it’s not enough to just buy the stuff. You can’t just buy the stuff. You still have to put it to good use. Real enjoyment is not passive. It’s not idle. And often it’s not easy. And this makes it a little bit easier.

Elizabeth:
Yes, that’s a reframing.

Gretchen:
It’s reframing. Elizabeth, your specialty.

Elizabeth:
Yes. And Gretchen, it’s not about spending a lot of money. You could find ways to do most of this without spending money. It’s really more about making it the ritual and maybe involving friends. And something like getting tea, you know, does not have to be expensive.

Gretchen:
Yeah, it’s more about an attitude. It’s about the frame of mind, not about the stuff.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Gretch, have you thought about this for yourself?

Gretchen:
Okay, I have it. So here’s the funny thing. And Elizabeth, see if you think I’ve sized up myself correctly… I kind of think that for me, deprivation almost comes too easily. Like I kind of go the opposite direction. So I think this is something where I have to watch out for enjoying the deprivation itself. And so I want to think about how I can use this as I think about not over depriving, because sometimes I want to strip the world too much.

Elizabeth:
Yes, this is why I say you should have been born in an ascetic monk because that’s your nature.

Gretchen:
I know.

Elizabeth:
That would be you in your pure essence.

Gretchen:
Yes, exactly. Well, so if you’re interested, I did post an article about turning deprivation into indulgence where I go into this. And I also include some links of my friend, some of her favorite discoveries because she was super excited to share all the brands and varieties that she found. So I’ll post a link to that in the show notes.

Elizabeth:
Oh, that’s great, because I’m sure a lot of our listeners are doing Dry January and might enjoy that.

Gretchen:
Yes. So let us know if you do Try This at Home and how you turn deprivation into indulgence, what you did, what you tried. Let us know on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, drop us an email at podcast@gretchenrubin.com or as always go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com/412.

Elizabeth:
Coming up we’ve got a time capsule Happiness Hack the first break.

[Music]

Gretchen:
Okay, now it’s time for a hack. And this is a hack related to the time capsule and also a celebration of a milestone birthday.

Elizabeth:
Yes, it comes from Jen. She says, “I love the podcast and especially enjoy the Try This at Home of creating a time capsule from episode 401. It reminded me of my daughter’s 10th birthday. She’s born May 10th, so her 10th birthday was her champagne birthday, and she’d been excited for it for some time. Unfortunately, it hit right at the height of COVID lockdown, but we still wanted to make it special for her.

“We created a time capsule to celebrate her champagne birthday and had family and friends contribute a little something for the capsule that she can open on her 20th birthday. We took the day of her birthday to gather the items and say hello at a safe distance with each contributor, which was quite fun. Everything was sealed up and the birthday girl is looking forward to opening the letters and small items and this time there will be special to her.

“Nothing expensive. Letters, cards, a newspaper from the day, colored pictures from younger cousins and of course, a bottle of champagne. Everyone got involved and made the day so special.”

Gretchen:
I thought this was such an amazing idea because it’s sort of a fun family activity that you can do, but that feels very celebratory because when you’re a kid, we called it the golden birthday, I guess. Yeah, I had never heard of champagne birthday. It feels like a really big deal, but what do you do? And this way it feels really exciting. And who doesn’t love a time capsule? So this is great.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Now I love this. Yes. And a good way to deal with the COVID lockdown, too.

Gretchen:
Right. What a great idea.

Elizabeth:
Okay, Gretch. It is time for our deep dive into 23 for 23 Lists.

Gretchen:
Yeah. In episode 411, we talked about how we wrote our 23 for 23 Lists, and we got so many great ideas from listeners about how they’re approaching their lists, what they’re putting on their list. But first we heard from several people about an item on your list, Elizabeth, about getting back into your wedding rings. Several people said the same thing. They had a reminder for you.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Amy said, “I love listening to the 23 for 23 List, but wanted to comment about Liz’s goal to get back into her wedding rings. I found that after my kids were born, even after I got back to my pre-pregnancy weight, I could not wear my rings. I ended up having them resized. I think all parts of your body can change, just like a lot of women find they are a different shoe size after pregnancy.”

Oh, okay. Good to know. So maybe I just really need to get my rings resized.

Gretchen:
Yes. Several listeners encourage you to do that. And so on my list, I had the idea that I was going to do this like 30 minutes of tasks, and I asked for ideas about what to call it. And I do love rhyming. I got many variations of “Dirty 30” or “Quick and Dirty 30,” which I do love. So thank you for that.

But my favorite idea came from Kim, as well as a few other people who suggested “23 for me,” which rhymes, and uses the number 23 for 2023. And 23 is close enough to 30. Like if I can get to 23 minutes, I’ll get done when I need to get done. So I like “23 for Me.”

So thank you to everybody who gave me those suggestions.

Elizabeth:
I love it. Okay, Gretch. So into the deep dive. Krista said, “A few weeks ago, I jotted a few ideas down for my 23 for 23 List. Number one on my list: Go Outside. What are the odds? Yes, it is currently -100 degrees in Minnesota, but I’m still excited to try.”

Gretchen:
Yeah, we heard from so many people who are really excited about the Outside 23 in 23 Challenge and are putting that on their 23 for 23 Lists. And in the future episodes we will talk about list ideas for Go Outside 23 in 23. So keep those coming, especially ideas about dealing with weather issues because as Krista said, it’s a tough time in the weather in a lot of places.

Elizabeth:
Yes, including L.A.

Gretchen:
Yeah. Marjorie said, “One of the items I imagine to my 23 for 23 List is to ‘Say nice things I am thinking.’ A couple of years back I had this on my list and it inspired me to write a thank-you note to a prior boss. He was so surprised by the fact that I thought of him as a mentor. He had no idea he had shared such wisdom with me. His reaction made me so glad that I had taken the time to share my thoughts and express my gratitude.”

Elizabeth:
Oh, that’s nice, Vicki said, “I wanted to share something that I will be mindful of when I identify what I want to accomplish next year. I discovered that my tasks and goals cannot rely heavily on another person for completion. For example, my husband and I are converting an old shed into a space where we can eat during the summer. I had this on my 2022 list to finish. However, I do not have all of the skills that it takes to do some of the work, so I was unable to finish this project. Perhaps I should learn these skills in 2023. When identifying what I want to accomplish in 2023, I will be mindful about what I choose to challenge myself with and make sure I have all the skills/ resources necessary to finish each one.”

Excellent point.

Gretchen:
I think that’s a good thing to keep in mind. And then back to this idea of gratitude, Abigail says, “As I’m planning my 23 for 23 and my word for 23, I’m also taking time to make a gratitude list. 22 things I’m grateful for from 2022. I’m also grateful for you podcast sisters as well.”

Thank you. And it’s it’s great to look backward, to remember what you’re grateful for. And along those same lines, our listener Moore sent a photo of her holiday card that was a list of 22 things that her family did or that happened in 2022. So using the look back of what happened. And it gives such a fun, clear picture of the family and what was happening in their lives, you know, much easier than crafting a narrative. Just like one page plus photos illustrating. So that’s another way to think about. Maybe want to put something on your 23 and 23 List that’s related to 2022.

Elizabeth:
And then Sharon said, “For the past few years, a group of five friends and I have developed our lists together with some overlaps, which makes it fun doing one or more of the things on our list together. We meet on the first Sunday of every month online to review our list together. It’s a great way to make sure we keep on top of our own lists as well as encourage each other.”

How fun.

Gretchen:
What a fun idea, Linda said, “This year I made a goal of trying 22 new foods or beverages in 2022. This was the most enjoyable New Year’s resolution. It got me out of my routine and made me seek out new to me flavors. I wish I had taken photos of each thing, but here’s a few.” And she includes bubble tea, sashimi, smoked salmon, swordfish, raw oysters, frog legs, beef Wellington, Turkish delight.

Elizabeth:
Espresso martini. I tried one of those recently. Delicious.

Gretchen:
There you go. So that’s fun. From Sharon, who is an Obliger, she wrote, “I’m an Obliger, so if something’s on the calendar, I will do it. My tip for the 23 and 23 List is to substitute appointment-making for doing. For example, I want to go to the dermatologist this year. So instead of writing, go to the dermatologist, I write, ‘make an appointment for the dermatologist.’

“This makes checking off the box on the list much easier. And I can pretty much guarantee as an Obliger that once the appointment is made, I will follow through and do the thing. So I think this is kind of a twist on focusing on action on outcomes. It’s like make the appointment because that’s easy to do. And then you get the outcome you want.

Elizabeth:
Yes. And then two Rebels explain how they use the tool 23 for 23, Sophia said, “I am a perhaps rare Rebel who loves lists and goal setting. I have some tips for how Rebels can make this concept work for them. 1. Don’t aim for 23 or any number for that matter. If I’m shooting for a particular number, I’m more likely to feel pressured to add things on there that aren’t truly important to me just to fill up the list. And those are the items that I’m most likely to resist.

The Questioner lean in me also can’t cope with the arbitrariness of 23 or wondering when the madness will end. 50 in 2050? Instead, I just add things to the list as they strike me and whatever number I end up should feel like a true represent of my values. But if that number happens to be 23, I will obviously need to add or remove an item so that I’m not conforming.

2. Adjust language for items that are purely for fun. For example, try pickleball. I find it’s okay to use basic language and ultimately treat it as a could do list. I particularly like the noncommittal feeling of the word try and how it doesn’t lock me in or pressure me to play on an ongoing basis if I don’t want to. The choice is mine. However, for items that are in the shoulds category, it really helps to adjust the language.

Examples: Rather than floss, I wrote ‘become a flosser.’ Or rather than ‘keep the house tidy,’ I wrote ‘Remember how much pride I take in being a good homemaker and how happy it makes my partner.’ The latter one hits me with both identity-based and love-based motivation without mentioning trigger words like ‘wash dishes and vacuum,’ the mere suggestion of which will make me want to throw all my cleaning supplies out the window. I hope these might be helpful to some Rebels out there. That is, if they want to be helped.

Gretchen:
These are great ideas. Many rebels talk about ‘Try.’ That they like the idea of the try. Elise, another Rebel, says, “As a Rebel, I need to and frankly like to, come up with my own way of doing things. First, list items that are SMART (the acronym for specific, measurable, achievable, attainable, realistic and time bound) tend to make my skin crawl. For the most part, my items follow a SCAT model: self-directed. I do not want anyone to expect these things to be in any way. Congruent with identity. Very helpful tip from happier to grounded in my identity, adaptable and adjustable. I can change items whenever and however I want. Time flexible. Nothing makes me less likely to do a task than a fixed deadline.

“I also like that my acronym is SCAT, the term for improvisation in jazz. Much of my best work comes from improvisation and letting myself get carried away and I probably also like that scat is sometimes used as slang for animal excrement. That’s my little Rebel wink about making a list at all.”

Elizabeth:
So funny. And Gretchen, the rising number seems to weigh on people’s minds. Mindy mentioned this to me as well, Mindy in Kansas City.

Gretchen:
Yes. People are worried.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Rebecca said, “It occurred to me that the number of items on the list is just getting higher and higher. Perhaps it would make sense to have anything over 20 be swap items or alternates that you could trade-in for something else if you decide to along the way.” Right.

Gretchen:
Right. Jenny said, “Since 23 items seems like too many, I’ve decided to choose five things that I will do quarterly. That adds up to 20. Then I’ll choose three items that are either one-time activities like a vacation or overarching ideas like ‘brush by 8 p.m.'”

Elizabeth:
That makes sense, Esther said, “I’m excited to leave preparing my 23 for 23 List, and I love the idea of using the number 23 in the list items. For example, I have goals to run for 23 minutes and to read 23 books for my own collection. I also realized another use for the number 23 to break up the digits and say 2 to 3, i.e., for something I want to do a few times. So I have goals to try 2 to 3 new forms of exercise to visit my parents, 2 to 3 additional times, and to learn the lyrics to 2 to 3 new songs.”

Gretchen:
I have to say I keep thinking that no one’s going to be able to like twist, put the twist on the numbers and then people come up with a new way to interpret it.

Elizabeth:
I think it’s incredible.

Gretchen:
So imaginative, so it’s so fun. Keep letting us know what’s on the list and how you’re going about it, because this is just endlessly fascinating. And I will post a link in the show notes if you want to print out the one-page PDF to make your list, you can do it any way you want, but if you want one page where you can just list it, it’s on gretchenrubin.com/resources and I’ll post a link in the show notes.

Elizabeth:
Okay. Coming up, Gretchen gives herself a driving Gold Star. But first this break.

[Music]

Gretchen:
Okay, Elizabeth. Demerits and Gold Stars. This is an even-numbered episode, which means it’s your turn to talk about a Demerit.

Elizabeth:
Yes. So, Gretchen, I have a feeling many listeners will relate to this Demerit. We are just out of the holidays, and my Demerit is that over the holidays I ate so many things that I didn’t even like, they didn’t have much taste, just because they were there.

So, like, a lot of Christmas cookies don’t necessarily taste great. They look pretty, but they don’t taste great. And I would just eat them because they were there. And there were some candies I had that I ate that, you know, really weren’t that great, but it was just I couldn’t resist.

Gretchen:
Right. You didn’t enjoy it. It wasn’t like mindful, like this is a homemade delicacy that I just really know was going to be wonderful.

Elizabeth:
Right. For example, my niece brought cookies homemade. That were amazing and were absolutely worth eating. And I can still, like, remember how good they were. Mm hmm. But the cookies that I got from the deli, just to have some cookies in case we needed more cookies, really just didn’t taste like much at all.

Gretchen:
Well, I think we’ve all done it.

Elizabeth:
So yeah. So hopefully I’ll remember the next holiday not to do that. What about you, Gretch? What is your Gold Star?

Gretchen:
Okay, Elizabeth, you’ll appreciate this because you and I both do not like to drive. You do drive all the time because you live in L.A., but I would say you do not enjoy it. And I am a fearful driver because I live in New York City. I don’t drive that often. And, you know, boredom is a great antidote to anxiety.

And when you’re driving all the time, because you know, I have my driver’s license. I do know how to drive perfectly well, but I don’t drive that much. So I’m kind of a fearful driver. But when I was in Kansas City, I drove a lot because, 1. I feel very comfortable in Kansas City because I grew up driving there.

It’s a pretty easy city to drive in in terms of just the street, the traffic. And I know my way around which is a big part of driving, is knowing where way around. And then there’s a car right there because, you know, mom and dad have cars, which is like in New York it’s not like that, but I still don’t enjoy it.

But I thought, “I’m going to use this time and just remind myself that I can drive perfectly well.” And usually I’m more anxious about it in anticipation. And then once I’m driving, I just don’t even think about it. You know, you’re like chatting with somebody or listening to the radio or whatever. But I was glad that I pushed myself to use that time to sort of chip away at that issue for me driving.

Elizabeth:
Yes, good for you. Because, yeah, you could have just said, Jamie, drive. Yeah, good for you.

Gretchen:
So the resources this week, as many people are thinking about their new resolutions and building new habits, it’s helpful to think about your energy level. So if you want to track your energy and just say, like, maybe I want to move a task to a different time of day when I’m higher energy, or maybe I can use do it in a low energy time. I don’t need to use my high energy time this way. If you go to happiercast.com/energy, you can get a time tracker because remember, there’s no right or wrong way or wrong time to approach a habit. It’s just whatever works for you.

So, Elizabeth, what are we reading?

Elizabeth:
I am reading Verity by Colleen Hoover.

Gretchen:
And I am reading The Lives We Actually Have by Kate Bowler with Jessica Richie.

And that’s it for this episode of Happier. Remember to Try This at Home, turn deprivation into indulgence. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

Elizabeth:
Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed, and everyone at Cadence13. Get in touch. Gretchen’s on Instagram @gretchenrubin and I’m @lizcraft. Our email address is podcast@gretchenrubin.com.

Gretchen:
And if you like the show, please be sure to tell a friend and follow us wherever you listen to your podcast and you know, give us some ratings. That is really helpful. It really helps people to find the show and it’s super easy to write a show and so you will get a giant Gold Star from us if you rate the show.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Until next week. I’m Elizabeth Craft.

Gretchen:
And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.

[Music]

Elizabeth:
Gretch, during all this rain in L.A., I was tempted to change 23 in 23 Outside to 2.3 minutes outside. But I didn’t, but that did occur to me.

[Music]

Gretchen:
From the Onward Project.

Happier 412 Transcript

Gretchen:
Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast where we discuss cutting-edge science, the wisdom of the ages, lessons from pop culture, and our own experiences in how to be happier. This week we’ll talk about why you might turn deprivation into indulgence (this was inspired by Dry January), and we’ll do a deep dive into listener suggestions for ways to approach making a 23 for 23 List.

[Music]

Gretchen:
I’m Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, the five senses, and human nature. I’m in New York City, and joining me today from L.A. is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. My sister the sage.

Elizabeth:
That’s me, Elizabeth Craft, a T.V. writer and producer living in L.A., and Gretchen, I am loving going #Outside23in23.

Gretchen:
Excellent. Yes, more outside for all. But Elizabeth, before we jump in, I saw that your spiritual teacher, Barbara Walters, died.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Oh, my gosh, Gretchen. And it was so nice. So many people reached out to me about it, who heard me talk about Barbara Walters on the podcast. And Sarah and I talk about her in episode 295 of Happier in Hollywood. What we took from her life. Yeah, very sorry about that. But glad that she existed.

Gretchen:
Yeah, big life. And she got so much recognition. It was really, really lovely to see that.

Elizabeth:
Yes.

Gretchen:
And a few more five senses ideas before we jump into the Try This at Home. Listeners had a couple suggestions about really how to take great pleasure in our five senses.

Elizabeth:
Yeah, Amanda says, “As I was baking cookies for the Christmas season, I used the large Lindt chocolate bars to chop up for my chocolate chip cookies. When you open the outer paper packaging, it tells you how to experience the chocolate with all five of your senses. Things like hearing the snap of the chocolate and seeing the markings on the bars. I think they are only inside the dark chocolate bars, but so fun to make the chocolate feel more luxurious and a mindful experience.”

Gretchen:
I love the idea that this product actually reminds you to use your five senses.. That’s great. We should all get reminders all the time. Love that.

Elizabeth:
So fun. And then Chris says, “Our family has started a new tradition of playing silly games during the holidays. Ages range from 8-76, so we keep it light to engage everyone. This year I designed a five senses challenge, so of course I thought of Gretchen.

Smell: Six jars with different smells. Cinnamon, ginger, coffee, onion, and oranges.

Taste: Candy taste test. Allergy-friendly, so we’re doing things like Skittles, Darts, Smarties, and Sweethearts.

Sight: Identify the Year of the Family holiday photo. I made small collages from 14 years of family Christmas pictures and put them in random order. We go from 0 to 5 kids slash grandkids during these years, so that will help people pinpoint the year.

Hearing: Name the next line of the Christmas song and the artist. I have YouTube links, but we’ll only play the audio, not show the video.

Touch: Build a tower of mini marshmallows and toothpicks. Their score will be the ranked towers by height.”

I mean, Gretchen, this is like she should sell this as a game.

Gretchen:
Absolutely. This is so next-level. First of all, this idea of dating the family photos, or like putting them in order, that sounds like so much fun. I would love to do that. Where you’re like looking at the outfits and the wallpaper and how tall the kids were. I think each one of these for each sense. This is such a great idea. I love this.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Amazing.

Gretchen:
Brilliant.

Elizabeth:
Chris, I hope that was a lot of fun.

Gretchen:
Yes. Okay. The Try This at Home tip this week is to turn deprivation into indulgence. This idea was inspired by my college roommate and the idea of Dry January. Because when you think about Dry January and you think about habits generally, often when we’re trying to change the habit, we’re asking something demanding of ourselves.

So sometimes we’re trying to push ourselves. So we want to go to sleep early or go for a daily walk, spend time outside, cook more, read to our kids every night. Sometimes we want to deprive ourselves. So we want to give up fast food. Stop watching T.V. after 9 p.m., stop drinking caffeine. And as I explore in my book about habit change Better Than Before, we really, really, really do not like to deprive ourselves generally.

And obviously this comes up in the context in a lot of places, but at Dry January.

Elizabeth:
Yes, and I’ve done Dry January before, Gretch. I’m not doing it this year because I already have just so many things I’m doing I didn’t want to add to it. I’m keeping track of so many things, but if you’ve decided to deprive yourself of something, it’s because you know you’ll be happier and healthier without it and you’ve made a good choice, but how can you make it easier?

Gretchen:
So one way to make deprivation easier is to turn deprivation into indulgence. So if you can’t afford it, you might throw a little money at the problem to make it easier to follow through.

Elizabeth:
Yeah. So what did your friend do for her Dry January that made it easier?

Gretchen:
Okay, so she told me about her whole plan. She wanted to do Dry January. She knew it would be tough for her. And it was even more than that because she wanted to use Dry January to kind of get her started to drink less in the future. She didn’t want to give up alcohol altogether, but she just she wanted to cut way back and this was a way to start.

So she thought of like, how can I use Dry January as an occasion of pleasure and interest, beauty, ritual? And I just thought it was so brilliant the way she went about it. So first of all, she did a lot of enjoyable research to figure out things she wanted to try, and then she did a lot of preparation, so she divided her bar area into mocktails and cocktails to house the different stuff.

And she bought new specialized glassware like margarita glasses and martini glasses. She got a lot of interesting mixers, along with items like ginger and lemon and fancy salt, anything, you know, to elevate the mocktail. She invited friends to come over and they did taste tests all these rounds where they were comparing different alcohol-free brands and mocktail combinations she found.

And so while she was making a lot of purchases, she wasn’t just buying stuff. She was elevating her experience with mindful attention, by engaging with other people, by learning and creating.

Elizabeth:
I love the idea, Gretch, that she was bonding with people as she was doing this because it was showing her, “Oh, hey, I don’t need to have alcohol with other people to have fun,” because the whole point of them being there was not to drink, so, you know, presumably probably everyone was having mocktails.

Gretchen:
Right. And so they had fun. And then with her husband, they had a nightly ritual of fixing a mocktail they both enjoyed. So again, it’s kind of replacing that and realizing you can still have that pleasant ritual. A moment of connection. She made her consumption more mindful, intentional. She also used her creativity because she came up with a lot of her own specialty drinks. So this was like a fun thing she was doing. So it had many different elements to it.

Elizabeth:
And then this approach of turning deprivation into indulgence can work for many aims, I would think.

Gretchen:
Oh, absolutely. I have another friend who wanted to give up coffee because it makes her really jittery, even though she loves it. So she decided, “No coffee, but I can indulge in tea paraphernalia.” So she’ll go to the fancy tea store and buy the fancy expensive tea. She has the fancy teapot. And she did the same thing with her in her cabinet. She made a special area dedicated to all her tea stuff. So again, that’s kind of elevating it by using your space to show like, “Oh, this is really valuable and interesting and exciting.” It’s an indulgence, it’s not a deprivation.

Elizabeth:
And then I can imagine if you want to stop eating out so much you could splurge on expensive or unusual ingredients, new tools that you might not have, some gorgeous cookbooks.

Gretchen:
Or like if you want to go to bed early, it’s like maybe you get new bedding or new nightclothes or you make your bed in the morning so it’s more fun to get into bed. You think of like, “Okay, how can I elevate this?”

Elizabeth:
So whatever the deprivation, when you’re thinking, “I can’t have this,” you can tell yourself, “but I get to have that.”

Gretchen:
Right. Now I think for a lot of people they might say, “Hey, this feels really self-indulgent.” You know, this is just consumerist. But as you were saying, a lot of times when we set off with these habits, it’s because we know that they’re going to really add to our happiness. So this is a good place to spend your time and your money and your energy if you can afford it.

And the fact is, it’s not enough to just buy the stuff. You can’t just buy the stuff. You still have to put it to good use. Real enjoyment is not passive. It’s not idle. And often it’s not easy. And this makes it a little bit easier.

Elizabeth:
Yes, that’s a reframing.

Gretchen:
It’s reframing. Elizabeth, your specialty.

Elizabeth:
Yes. And Gretchen, it’s not about spending a lot of money. You could find ways to do most of this without spending money. It’s really more about making it the ritual and maybe involving friends. And something like getting tea, you know, does not have to be expensive.

Gretchen:
Yeah, it’s more about an attitude. It’s about the frame of mind, not about the stuff.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Gretch, have you thought about this for yourself?

Gretchen:
Okay, I have it. So here’s the funny thing. And Elizabeth, see if you think I’ve sized up myself correctly… I kind of think that for me, deprivation almost comes too easily. Like I kind of go the opposite direction. So I think this is something where I have to watch out for enjoying the deprivation itself. And so I want to think about how I can use this as I think about not over depriving, because sometimes I want to strip the world too much.

Elizabeth:
Yes, this is why I say you should have been born in an ascetic monk because that’s your nature.

Gretchen:
I know.

Elizabeth:
That would be you in your pure essence.

Gretchen:
Yes, exactly. Well, so if you’re interested, I did post an article about turning deprivation into indulgence where I go into this. And I also include some links of my friend, some of her favorite discoveries because she was super excited to share all the brands and varieties that she found. So I’ll post a link to that in the show notes.

Elizabeth:
Oh, that’s great, because I’m sure a lot of our listeners are doing Dry January and might enjoy that.

Gretchen:
Yes. So let us know if you do Try This at Home and how you turn deprivation into indulgence, what you did, what you tried. Let us know on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, drop us an email at podcast@gretchenrubin.com or as always go to the show notes. This is happiercast.com/412.

Elizabeth:
Coming up we’ve got a time capsule Happiness Hack the first break.

[Music]

Gretchen:
Okay, now it’s time for a hack. And this is a hack related to the time capsule and also a celebration of a milestone birthday.

Elizabeth:
Yes, it comes from Jen. She says, “I love the podcast and especially enjoy the Try This at Home of creating a time capsule from episode 401. It reminded me of my daughter’s 10th birthday. She’s born May 10th, so her 10th birthday was her champagne birthday, and she’d been excited for it for some time. Unfortunately, it hit right at the height of COVID lockdown, but we still wanted to make it special for her.

“We created a time capsule to celebrate her champagne birthday and had family and friends contribute a little something for the capsule that she can open on her 20th birthday. We took the day of her birthday to gather the items and say hello at a safe distance with each contributor, which was quite fun. Everything was sealed up and the birthday girl is looking forward to opening the letters and small items and this time there will be special to her.

“Nothing expensive. Letters, cards, a newspaper from the day, colored pictures from younger cousins and of course, a bottle of champagne. Everyone got involved and made the day so special.”

Gretchen:
I thought this was such an amazing idea because it’s sort of a fun family activity that you can do, but that feels very celebratory because when you’re a kid, we called it the golden birthday, I guess. Yeah, I had never heard of champagne birthday. It feels like a really big deal, but what do you do? And this way it feels really exciting. And who doesn’t love a time capsule? So this is great.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Now I love this. Yes. And a good way to deal with the COVID lockdown, too.

Gretchen:
Right. What a great idea.

Elizabeth:
Okay, Gretch. It is time for our deep dive into 23 for 23 Lists.

Gretchen:
Yeah. In episode 411, we talked about how we wrote our 23 for 23 Lists, and we got so many great ideas from listeners about how they’re approaching their lists, what they’re putting on their list. But first we heard from several people about an item on your list, Elizabeth, about getting back into your wedding rings. Several people said the same thing. They had a reminder for you.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Amy said, “I love listening to the 23 for 23 List, but wanted to comment about Liz’s goal to get back into her wedding rings. I found that after my kids were born, even after I got back to my pre-pregnancy weight, I could not wear my rings. I ended up having them resized. I think all parts of your body can change, just like a lot of women find they are a different shoe size after pregnancy.”

Oh, okay. Good to know. So maybe I just really need to get my rings resized.

Gretchen:
Yes. Several listeners encourage you to do that. And so on my list, I had the idea that I was going to do this like 30 minutes of tasks, and I asked for ideas about what to call it. And I do love rhyming. I got many variations of “Dirty 30” or “Quick and Dirty 30,” which I do love. So thank you for that.

But my favorite idea came from Kim, as well as a few other people who suggested “23 for me,” which rhymes, and uses the number 23 for 2023. And 23 is close enough to 30. Like if I can get to 23 minutes, I’ll get done when I need to get done. So I like “23 for Me.”

So thank you to everybody who gave me those suggestions.

Elizabeth:
I love it. Okay, Gretch. So into the deep dive. Krista said, “A few weeks ago, I jotted a few ideas down for my 23 for 23 List. Number one on my list: Go Outside. What are the odds? Yes, it is currently -100 degrees in Minnesota, but I’m still excited to try.”

Gretchen:
Yeah, we heard from so many people who are really excited about the Outside 23 in 23 Challenge and are putting that on their 23 for 23 Lists. And in the future episodes we will talk about list ideas for Go Outside 23 in 23. So keep those coming, especially ideas about dealing with weather issues because as Krista said, it’s a tough time in the weather in a lot of places.

Elizabeth:
Yes, including L.A.

Gretchen:
Yeah. Marjorie said, “One of the items I imagine to my 23 for 23 List is to ‘Say nice things I am thinking.’ A couple of years back I had this on my list and it inspired me to write a thank-you note to a prior boss. He was so surprised by the fact that I thought of him as a mentor. He had no idea he had shared such wisdom with me. His reaction made me so glad that I had taken the time to share my thoughts and express my gratitude.”

Elizabeth:
Oh, that’s nice, Vicki said, “I wanted to share something that I will be mindful of when I identify what I want to accomplish next year. I discovered that my tasks and goals cannot rely heavily on another person for completion. For example, my husband and I are converting an old shed into a space where we can eat during the summer. I had this on my 2022 list to finish. However, I do not have all of the skills that it takes to do some of the work, so I was unable to finish this project. Perhaps I should learn these skills in 2023. When identifying what I want to accomplish in 2023, I will be mindful about what I choose to challenge myself with and make sure I have all the skills/ resources necessary to finish each one.”

Excellent point.

Gretchen:
I think that’s a good thing to keep in mind. And then back to this idea of gratitude, Abigail says, “As I’m planning my 23 for 23 and my word for 23, I’m also taking time to make a gratitude list. 22 things I’m grateful for from 2022. I’m also grateful for you podcast sisters as well.”

Thank you. And it’s it’s great to look backward, to remember what you’re grateful for. And along those same lines, our listener Moore sent a photo of her holiday card that was a list of 22 things that her family did or that happened in 2022. So using the look back of what happened. And it gives such a fun, clear picture of the family and what was happening in their lives, you know, much easier than crafting a narrative. Just like one page plus photos illustrating. So that’s another way to think about. Maybe want to put something on your 23 and 23 List that’s related to 2022.

Elizabeth:
And then Sharon said, “For the past few years, a group of five friends and I have developed our lists together with some overlaps, which makes it fun doing one or more of the things on our list together. We meet on the first Sunday of every month online to review our list together. It’s a great way to make sure we keep on top of our own lists as well as encourage each other.”

How fun.

Gretchen:
What a fun idea, Linda said, “This year I made a goal of trying 22 new foods or beverages in 2022. This was the most enjoyable New Year’s resolution. It got me out of my routine and made me seek out new to me flavors. I wish I had taken photos of each thing, but here’s a few.” And she includes bubble tea, sashimi, smoked salmon, swordfish, raw oysters, frog legs, beef Wellington, Turkish delight.

Elizabeth:
Espresso martini. I tried one of those recently. Delicious.

Gretchen:
There you go. So that’s fun. From Sharon, who is an Obliger, she wrote, “I’m an Obliger, so if something’s on the calendar, I will do it. My tip for the 23 and 23 List is to substitute appointment-making for doing. For example, I want to go to the dermatologist this year. So instead of writing, go to the dermatologist, I write, ‘make an appointment for the dermatologist.’

“This makes checking off the box on the list much easier. And I can pretty much guarantee as an Obliger that once the appointment is made, I will follow through and do the thing. So I think this is kind of a twist on focusing on action on outcomes. It’s like make the appointment because that’s easy to do. And then you get the outcome you want.

Elizabeth:
Yes. And then two Rebels explain how they use the tool 23 for 23, Sophia said, “I am a perhaps rare Rebel who loves lists and goal setting. I have some tips for how Rebels can make this concept work for them. 1. Don’t aim for 23 or any number for that matter. If I’m shooting for a particular number, I’m more likely to feel pressured to add things on there that aren’t truly important to me just to fill up the list. And those are the items that I’m most likely to resist.

The Questioner lean in me also can’t cope with the arbitrariness of 23 or wondering when the madness will end. 50 in 2050? Instead, I just add things to the list as they strike me and whatever number I end up should feel like a true represent of my values. But if that number happens to be 23, I will obviously need to add or remove an item so that I’m not conforming.

2. Adjust language for items that are purely for fun. For example, try pickleball. I find it’s okay to use basic language and ultimately treat it as a could do list. I particularly like the noncommittal feeling of the word try and how it doesn’t lock me in or pressure me to play on an ongoing basis if I don’t want to. The choice is mine. However, for items that are in the shoulds category, it really helps to adjust the language.

Examples: Rather than floss, I wrote ‘become a flosser.’ Or rather than ‘keep the house tidy,’ I wrote ‘Remember how much pride I take in being a good homemaker and how happy it makes my partner.’ The latter one hits me with both identity-based and love-based motivation without mentioning trigger words like ‘wash dishes and vacuum,’ the mere suggestion of which will make me want to throw all my cleaning supplies out the window. I hope these might be helpful to some Rebels out there. That is, if they want to be helped.

Gretchen:
These are great ideas. Many rebels talk about ‘Try.’ That they like the idea of the try. Elise, another Rebel, says, “As a Rebel, I need to and frankly like to, come up with my own way of doing things. First, list items that are SMART (the acronym for specific, measurable, achievable, attainable, realistic and time bound) tend to make my skin crawl. For the most part, my items follow a SCAT model: self-directed. I do not want anyone to expect these things to be in any way. Congruent with identity. Very helpful tip from happier to grounded in my identity, adaptable and adjustable. I can change items whenever and however I want. Time flexible. Nothing makes me less likely to do a task than a fixed deadline.

“I also like that my acronym is SCAT, the term for improvisation in jazz. Much of my best work comes from improvisation and letting myself get carried away and I probably also like that scat is sometimes used as slang for animal excrement. That’s my little Rebel wink about making a list at all.”

Elizabeth:
So funny. And Gretchen, the rising number seems to weigh on people’s minds. Mindy mentioned this to me as well, Mindy in Kansas City.

Gretchen:
Yes. People are worried.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Rebecca said, “It occurred to me that the number of items on the list is just getting higher and higher. Perhaps it would make sense to have anything over 20 be swap items or alternates that you could trade-in for something else if you decide to along the way.” Right.

Gretchen:
Right. Jenny said, “Since 23 items seems like too many, I’ve decided to choose five things that I will do quarterly. That adds up to 20. Then I’ll choose three items that are either one-time activities like a vacation or overarching ideas like ‘brush by 8 p.m.'”

Elizabeth:
That makes sense, Esther said, “I’m excited to leave preparing my 23 for 23 List, and I love the idea of using the number 23 in the list items. For example, I have goals to run for 23 minutes and to read 23 books for my own collection. I also realized another use for the number 23 to break up the digits and say 2 to 3, i.e., for something I want to do a few times. So I have goals to try 2 to 3 new forms of exercise to visit my parents, 2 to 3 additional times, and to learn the lyrics to 2 to 3 new songs.”

Gretchen:
I have to say I keep thinking that no one’s going to be able to like twist, put the twist on the numbers and then people come up with a new way to interpret it.

Elizabeth:
I think it’s incredible.

Gretchen:
So imaginative, so it’s so fun. Keep letting us know what’s on the list and how you’re going about it, because this is just endlessly fascinating. And I will post a link in the show notes if you want to print out the one-page PDF to make your list, you can do it any way you want, but if you want one page where you can just list it, it’s on gretchenrubin.com/resources and I’ll post a link in the show notes.

Elizabeth:
Okay. Coming up, Gretchen gives herself a driving Gold Star. But first this break.

[Music]

Gretchen:
Okay, Elizabeth. Demerits and Gold Stars. This is an even-numbered episode, which means it’s your turn to talk about a Demerit.

Elizabeth:
Yes. So, Gretchen, I have a feeling many listeners will relate to this Demerit. We are just out of the holidays, and my Demerit is that over the holidays I ate so many things that I didn’t even like, they didn’t have much taste, just because they were there.

So, like, a lot of Christmas cookies don’t necessarily taste great. They look pretty, but they don’t taste great. And I would just eat them because they were there. And there were some candies I had that I ate that, you know, really weren’t that great, but it was just I couldn’t resist.

Gretchen:
Right. You didn’t enjoy it. It wasn’t like mindful, like this is a homemade delicacy that I just really know was going to be wonderful.

Elizabeth:
Right. For example, my niece brought cookies homemade. That were amazing and were absolutely worth eating. And I can still, like, remember how good they were. Mm hmm. But the cookies that I got from the deli, just to have some cookies in case we needed more cookies, really just didn’t taste like much at all.

Gretchen:
Well, I think we’ve all done it.

Elizabeth:
So yeah. So hopefully I’ll remember the next holiday not to do that. What about you, Gretch? What is your Gold Star?

Gretchen:
Okay, Elizabeth, you’ll appreciate this because you and I both do not like to drive. You do drive all the time because you live in L.A., but I would say you do not enjoy it. And I am a fearful driver because I live in New York City. I don’t drive that often. And, you know, boredom is a great antidote to anxiety.

And when you’re driving all the time, because you know, I have my driver’s license. I do know how to drive perfectly well, but I don’t drive that much. So I’m kind of a fearful driver. But when I was in Kansas City, I drove a lot because, 1. I feel very comfortable in Kansas City because I grew up driving there.

It’s a pretty easy city to drive in in terms of just the street, the traffic. And I know my way around which is a big part of driving, is knowing where way around. And then there’s a car right there because, you know, mom and dad have cars, which is like in New York it’s not like that, but I still don’t enjoy it.

But I thought, “I’m going to use this time and just remind myself that I can drive perfectly well.” And usually I’m more anxious about it in anticipation. And then once I’m driving, I just don’t even think about it. You know, you’re like chatting with somebody or listening to the radio or whatever. But I was glad that I pushed myself to use that time to sort of chip away at that issue for me driving.

Elizabeth:
Yes, good for you. Because, yeah, you could have just said, Jamie, drive. Yeah, good for you.

Gretchen:
So the resources this week, as many people are thinking about their new resolutions and building new habits, it’s helpful to think about your energy level. So if you want to track your energy and just say, like, maybe I want to move a task to a different time of day when I’m higher energy, or maybe I can use do it in a low energy time. I don’t need to use my high energy time this way. If you go to happiercast.com/energy, you can get a time tracker because remember, there’s no right or wrong way or wrong time to approach a habit. It’s just whatever works for you.

So, Elizabeth, what are we reading?

Elizabeth:
I am reading Verity by Colleen Hoover.

Gretchen:
And I am reading The Lives We Actually Have by Kate Bowler with Jessica Richie.

And that’s it for this episode of Happier. Remember to Try This at Home, turn deprivation into indulgence. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

Elizabeth:
Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed, and everyone at Cadence13. Get in touch. Gretchen’s on Instagram @gretchenrubin and I’m @lizcraft. Our email address is podcast@gretchenrubin.com.

Gretchen:
And if you like the show, please be sure to tell a friend and follow us wherever you listen to your podcast and you know, give us some ratings. That is really helpful. It really helps people to find the show and it’s super easy to write a show and so you will get a giant Gold Star from us if you rate the show.

Elizabeth:
Yes. Until next week. I’m Elizabeth Craft.

Gretchen:
And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.

[Music]

Elizabeth:
Gretch, during all this rain in L.A., I was tempted to change 23 in 23 Outside to 2.3 minutes outside. But I didn’t, but that did occur to me.

[Music]

Gretchen:
From the Onward Project.