Ta-da! I’m thrilled to announce my new quiz: What’s Your Neglected Sense?

We’re all familiar with the five senses of see, hear, smell, taste, and touch. This free, quick quiz will help you identify which is your most neglected sense. 

This self-knowledge is useful, because identifying your neglected sense will . . .

• help explain why you’re attracted to certain purchases, practices, and habits–and why you’re not attracted
• give you clues about the types of activities that you might find more or less appealing
• suggest new experiences you might enjoy
• provide new ways to connect with others
• offer you new ways to find comfort, calm, and pleasure

I worked with a brilliant team to create this quiz, so it’s exciting to launch it. I’m so curious to hear people’s responses.

What’s Your Neglected Sense?

Also, a few weeks ago we mentioned that a listener’s husband surprised her with a “20,000th Day” birthday celebration. If you want to calculate how many days, hours, or minutes that someone has been alive, look here: https://www.mycalculators.net/entertainment/age-calculator.

Try This at Home

Create an Audio Apothecary to cure the blues or to put you in a particular mood.

If you’re curious about my playlist, you can listen to it on Spotify (you can listen for free):

• Open Spotify
• click on “Search” to search for “gretchenrubin” (no space)
• Click the “Profiles” button on the top bar
• Click on “gretchenrubin” and then “Gretchen Rubin’s Audio Apothecary”

If you’d like to read more about why and how to create your own Audio Apothecary, I wrote about it here.

I also write about the power of music and listening in Life in Five Senses. Pre-order early and often!

Happiness Hack

If you’re not sure how to pronounce a word or name, it can be helpful to consult youglish.com, a site that shows clips of videos where real people pronounce a certain word.

Four Tendencies Listener Questions

Two Questioners posed questions:

• how to handle the annoyance of being constantly questioned by family members, who also repeat that information to neighbors
• how to handle resistance to inefficient assignments and arbitrary deadlines at work

Questioners, what advice do you have?

Don’t know whether you’re a Questioner, Upholder, Obliger, or Rebel? Take the free quiz here. 

Demerits & Gold Stars

• Elizabeth’s Demerit: Being sluggish about getting back into walking the dogs and exercising after all the L.A. rain.
• Gretchen’s Gold Star: Everyone working on my book launch has been so terrific.

Resource

Take the new quiz: “What’s Your Neglected Sense?”

What we’re reading

• Elizabeth: The Water and the Wild by K. E. Ormsbee (Amazon)
• Gretchen: On Becoming a Novelist by John Gardner (Amazon, Bookshop)

422

Gretchen

Hello and welcome to the Happier. A podcast where we put abstract information and transcendent and ideals into practice in our lives for ways to become happier. This week in our series about the five senses leading up to the publication of my new book, Life in Five Senses, we’ll talk about why we might create an audio apothecary. And we’ll also pass along a question from two listeners who are questioners who are facing the same challenge.

[Music]

Gretchen

Plus, I have an exciting announcement. I’m Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, the five senses. I’m in New York City in my little home office. And joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, I will be seeing you in person soon when I go on my book tour for Life in Five Senses.

Gretchen

I get to stay with you overnight.

Elizabeth

Yes, that’s me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in L.A. And, Gretch, you’ve already brought up that we should have a clutter-clearing session when you’re here. So, yes, we will see if you can get me to do that.

Gretchen

I’m licking my chops at the opportunity, but we have we have a lot to do. So I’m hoping a lot of time for that. My favorite. My favorite activity.

Elizabeth

Okay, Gretchen, everybody may have just noticed that’s how you and I sound underwater. And we did that because this episode is all about hearing. Yes. Your book about the five senses is coming out soon. And so we’re celebrating the five senses this week. We’re celebrating hearing. And so we’re playing with some of our sound, and that will be throughout the episode.

Gretchen

A little fun, fun thing to notice as you listen. But before we launch in, and I have a big announcement, I am launching a new quiz. So 3.2 million people have taken my Four Tendencies quiz. I love a quiz. Nothing’s better than a great self knowledge quiz. So with the five senses, we’re all familiar with the five senses of see, hear, smell, taste, touch.

Gretchen

This quiz will help you identify your most neglected sense.

Elizabeth

And Gretch, why do we want to know this?

Gretchen

Well, see, if you have your most appreciated scents. You probably already tuning into it all the time. Like you’re exploring it, you’re sharing experiences about it because it’s something you really appreciate. But with your neglected sences, there’s all this low hanging fruit of things that you haven’t been doing because you’re not tapping into it. And so it might explain why you are attracted to certain purchases or habits or practices to some and not others.

Gretchen

It might give you insight into the kinds of activities that you might enjoy more or less. Even better, it could suggest new experiences to try and give you new ways to connect with other people because it’s just something that you’ve been neglecting. And so by putting more into it, you can get more out of it.

Elizabeth

Well, you say in your subtitle, it’s how exploring your five senses is how you got out of your head and into the world right? Yeah. So this is using all five senses gets you into the world.

Gretchen

And Elizabeth, I’m dying for you to take the quiz because I know I have my own theory, but I want to see. What do you think? My most neglected senses.

Elizabeth

I would guess. Taste?

Gretchen

Yes. You got it. You know me well. Thank you. Yes.

Elizabeth

Well, you eat the same things every day, so that’s not surprising.

Gretchen

Right. Well, and so I found all these ways to tap into my sense of taste to get so much more pleasure out of it and more interest out of it because it was something that I had neglected. So anyway, I’m very excited to launch this quiz. I worked with this brilliant team. It’s really fun to take. It’s very hard to write a quiz that’s useful and then to design it.

Gretchen

So I’m really excited to put it out into the world and that is at gretchenrubin.com/quiz. Go to it. Take it. Email us. Let us know what you discover. I’m really excited about that.

Elizabeth

We all love a quiz.

Gretchen

Yes, yes, yes. So, Elizabeth, this week, our try this at home suggestion is to create an audio apothecary.

Elizabeth

I love just the phrase audio apothecary. It just sounds so enticing.

Gretchen

Yes. So this is a way to tap into the power of music, to put yourself into whatever mood you want to be in. So one of the things that I learned in researching Life in Five Senses is all human societies have music. This is a universal human element of human culture, and music plays an important role in so many aspects of culture, like dancing, physical work, military exercises, religious observances.

Gretchen

And it’s kind of interesting because researchers puzzle over why is something that is not necessary for survival yet this pervasive aspect of human culture. So there’s a lot of different theories about that. But whatever theory is true, what is very clear is that music can have a dramatic influence over our bodies, our minds, our behavior. And so this is really something that we can tap into very deliberately.

Gretchen

We can use music to help us pump up our energy or lessen pain or calm ourselves or focus or put ourselves into a playful mood. And so you can use a playlist to do that.

Elizabeth

Now, Gretchen, this is interesting coming from you because you are not what I would think of as a big music listener.

Gretchen

I am not. I think after taste, my second most neglected sense was hearing and so I had a lot of low hanging fruit and this was one of the things I thought, I’m like, I really don’t listen to music. I don’t have a lot of people have playlists. I don’t really have a playlist so why don’t I create an audio apothecary.

Gretchen

So to cure the blues, that’s what I wanted when I was feeling low energy or like low in spirits, I wanted to have a playlist that I could turn to that would that would quickly intervene, because that’s what the research shows. It’s one of the quickest, easiest ways to turn a mood around.

Elizabeth

So that’s what led you to your audio apothecary. Yes. So explain exactly what it is. Just you pick a collection of songs?

Gretchen

Rifght, so you could pick like I wanted happy and energetic, but you could also have something like pensive and meditative. You could have one that’s like meeting a challenge, you know, like theme from Rocky or one that evokes a particular time. Like maybe you want to have sort of a nostalgic one that puts you in a particular. If you associate a particular time with a particular mood, you could use music.

Gretchen

You know, music is so good at sort of evoking a past time. You could use it in that way.

Elizabeth

The classic version I think, of as a workout playlist, I think a lot of people have several playlists that get them pumped up to run. Yeah.

Gretchen

So the first one on mine was a Dolly Parton. You know how much we love Dolly Parton. So it’s Mule Skinner Blues because that is the song. No matter how low you are, that will bring a smile to your face. It’s kind of got this yodeling to it. That’s so fun. And then I just made a list of songs.

Gretchen

And you know, it’s interesting. This is a place where technology can really help. I think one of the big questions that comes up when you’re talking about the five senses is, is technology getting in our way and sort of interfering with our enjoyment of our five senses because it’s it’s disconnecting us or is it helping us in some way?

Gretchen

And I think this is a place if you want an audio apothecary where it’s so convenient, it’s so easy to make it, and then you always have access to it. And so if you’re trying to evoke that mood, like if I was just like walking around the neighborhood and feeling low in spirits, I could just turn to it because I have it with me.

Gretchen

So in that way, technology can really be a helpful aspect.

Elizabeth

Gretch, You know, what I love is you can also do this for someone else. Like, we’re always saying, what’s a gift you can give that’s an experience that’s not expensive. Can’t you create an audio apothecary with someone else in mind and then have them access it? And it’s like giving someone a mixtape back in the day.

Gretchen

You know, there’s so many ways you can use this capacity that we have.

Elizabeth

Gretch, can people listen to your audio

Gretchen

Apothecary? Yeah, So I posted this on Spotify and you do not need to be you don’t need to join Spotify to do it. You can use it for free. So, okay, I’m going to tell you how to do it. But then I did write an article where I write out the instructions. If you want to look at it, I’ll put a link in the show notes.

Gretchen

Okay, so you open Spotify, you click on Search, and you search for GretchenRubin with no space, and then you click the profiles button on the top bar and then you click on Gretchen Rubin and then you’ll see Gretchen Rubin’s Audio Apothecary, and then you can listen to I’m adding to it all the time, but you can see what I’ve chosen so far.

Gretchen

It’s so fun. It’s so fun to share it. Like I love all the songs in my Audio Apothecary so much I’m like, maybe I’ll help people discover a song they don’t know about.

Elizabeth

Absolutely.

Gretchen

And for people who are interested in this, I do write about it in Life in Five Senses. And so if you’re curious to read more of the research or how I went about it, I write about it there. And of course, because I mentioned life in five senses, I have to say, preorder for yourself. I’ll put a link.

Elizabeth

Yes, preorder.

Gretchen

So let us know if you do try this at home and how creating an audio apothecary works for you. What kind of mood are you trying to evoke with your audio apothecary? Let us know on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter or Facebook. Drop us an email at podcast@gretchenrubin.com or go to happiercast.com/422 for everything related to this episode.

Elizabeth

Coming up, we’ve got a happiness hack related to pronunciation. But first, this break. Gretch, it’s time for this week’s Happiness Hack, which is also on the subject of sound.

[Music]

Gretchen

Okay, so I was recording my audio book and one of the things that comes up a lot when you’re recording an audio book is how to pronounce things. I always realize that there are many words that I’ve been mispronouncing my whole life, and then they’re words that sort of everyone is unsure. So we check. And then there are names where you you really want to check and make sure that you have a name, right.

Gretchen

So the engineer Zach told me about this site called you youglish.com. Like Y-O-U-G-L-I-S-H like youglish dot com. And what it does is it doesn’t tell you how to pronounce things, but it creates tiny clips of videos over and over and over of people using that word. And then you can read a little bit of the transcript so you can see the sentence, and them using it.

Gretchen

Now, I’ve used it and it seems like it does favor what you would consider to be experts, like academics talking about something or people who you would be more likely to think that they knew. Now that might just have been the kind of words that I was picking. Right. They were words from like Egyptian history. So like, that’s the kind of thing that a professor would be talking about.

Gretchen

And what it shows you is often there is a lot of variation. So maybe nobody’s going to know if you’re right or wrong, because there’s a lot of there’s a lot of people pronouncing a word in a different way, but it’s often really helpful to hear a bunch of people saying it rather than just this trying to do the same one over and over, because it’s either it’s just it’s just sometimes hard to imitate a word where you’re not sure how they’re saying it.

Gretchen

And you can’t always see a written example of how to pronounce something. So it’s just I found it to be really useful to just. Incredible! Yeah, just it’s just clip after clip after clip. So that’s youglish.

Elizabeth

Youglish.com. Yeah. Yes. That’s amazing. Once again, technology is our friend. That is correct!

Gretchen

And now for two questions from two listeners. These are questions related to the four tendencies. There are those related to being a questioner and also related to listening and talking, which are some of the most important things that we do with our senses. And the first one is from Jenny.

Elizabeth

Hey, Jenny says, as a questioner, I hate being asked questions. The trouble is I have a mother and grandmother who continually ask where I’ve been, what I’ve been doing, etc., etc., etc. I really don’t want to share my personal timetabl each time we meet, which is almost daily, I find it trivial and intrusive. Also, when asked by neighbors, my mom will share all the information she has.

Elizabeth

It’s not malicious, but more of a verbal diarrhea. I certainly don’t want all my personal information shared with the neighborhood either. The difficulty is that neither my mom nor my grandmother understand my reluctance to share information with them. They constantly think I’m being ridiculous, not wanting to answer questions, and that I am being, quote, funny, deliberately awkward with them.

Elizabeth

It’s a source of many fallouts. Please do you or your listeners have any suggestions on how I can deal with the situation?

Gretchen

So one question that many questioners face is they don’t like to be asked to answer questions, which is ironic, but it is something that many questioners talk about. And another thing that many questioners talk about is being very, very resistant when they are asked to do things that they feel are arbitrary or unjustified, which is what the next questioner is struggling with.

Elizabeth

This comes from Rebecca. She says, I am a questioner, and I was wondering if you had some advice for how to navigate a work environment that is designed in ways I struggle with. I am an associate at a law firm, and I am finding that a law firm is filled with seemingly arbitrary expectations that are hard for me to deal with.

Elizabeth

Billable hours are the most obvious example. Another is the propensity to set arbitrary deadlines that are unconnected to any court schedule at all. Unsurprisingly, all of this drives me crazy and I find it totally unmotivating. I try to meet these expectations because I don’t want to cause stress for other people, but my inner monologue is infuriated by a lot of it, and I often don’t meet my hours in a month if doing so just means creating extra unnecessary work for myself.

Elizabeth

I will work very hard to finish work that needs to get done, but I won’t do any work if it’s just to bump my number up. Do you have any tips for how to navigate these seemingly arbitrary expectations so that I am not so cranky about them and actually meet them? I imagine the other tendencies also find themselves in work situations that they can’t change but go against their tendencies as well.

Elizabeth

I otherwise like my job, my coworkers are great and the work is fun, but this part of it I am struggling with.

Gretchen

Well, first of all Questioners, how do you deal with this? Let’s hear it from the mouths of the questioners. How do you deal with when people are asking you questions that are irritating? And also, how do you handle arbitrary demands? I will say that one thing I’ve heard of that can work for questioners dealing with the arbitrary demands is that is for them to look for

Gretchen

The second order reason. So you can say, well, I’m not meeting this deadline because this deadline makes sense, because this deadline doesn’t make sense. I’m meeting this deadline because I’m an associate in a law firm. I want to make partner or I want to get my bonus. And for me to do that, I need for you to rate my work as excellent.

Gretchen

And so the way that I will get that excellent rating is by doing what you want me to do. And so it’s sort of like the demand itself is arbitrary, but my behavior is not arbitrary. My own response is very, very well justified. Sometimes Questioners find that to be useful.

Elizabeth

Yeah. Gretch, and in thinking about someone above them might be being questioned. In other words, like Sarah and I sometimes will get what we consider arbitrary questions of like, well, when is this going to be turned in? And we remind ourselves they’re not really asking. They just have to report to their boss that they asked. Oh, so it’s just like realizing that there’s just a chain of arbitrariness that is part of working in society.

Elizabeth

And it’s not that anyone, you know what I mean? It’s just the way it goes. Right.

Gretchen

Well, I also think this is a this is a case and I don’t know that everybody would be open to this, but in some circumstances, you can talk to people about the Four Tendencies and just sort of say like, well, this is a thing. I mean, I’ve heard from many parents who will like go into school with the Four Tendencies book and underline parts.

Gretchen

And I think it’s so admirable of teachers being open to this. Like, here’s my kid and this is why you need to like, take these things into account. Apparently, they’re very open to that kind of information. But if you went to your boss or your manager and said, I’m really struggling with this, help me understand why it’s set up this way, it might be that there is a reason that you just don’t understand.

Gretchen

And so then it will feel not arbitrary to you, or it might make that person realize, Hey, we’ve put a lot of things in place that aren’t really needed. Or maybe they would say something like, Hey, listen, we make these deadlines because we know that there are a bunch Obligers on the team who really thrive with deadlines, but just you and me, wink, wink, know that we’ll just let you do it when you want, and I’m not going to worry about it.

Gretchen

So you just ignore that. I mean, there might be a way to talk through it. Yes. Because you might explain why you’re struggling and there might be answers there. The issue also with the questioning and, Elizabeth, we’ve talked about this before, is sometimes people use questions as a way to connect. They aren’t they aren’t true questions and that it’s a search for information.

Gretchen

It’s just this is a way that we’re going to just be with each other. It’s a way to show interest. It’s offered with love and interest, but it’s not received that way, clearly.

Elizabeth

So in the case of Jenny, maybe she needs to do the questioning. Maybe if she was asking them questions, Yes, you know, her mom and grandma, then they would have that conversation and they wouldn’t feel the need to question.

Gretchen

Her that is a brilliant solution! I have never thought of that. I think that is outstanding because you’re exactly right. You have a point of it is let’s have a connection. It doesn’t matter which way it’s going. It might even be better, right?

Elizabeth

So just start hitting them with questions.

Gretchen

And then she’s not giving them fodder because we all know that thing where it’s not that it’s a secret or that it’s like so private, but you just don’t need a bunch of people knowing everything about your business. You know, you just it’s just you just don’t want that. And you certainly don’t want other people deciding what to dish out.

Gretchen

It’s one thing for you to decide to tell a neighbor X, Y, or Z, but you don’t want the feeling that other people are talking about it. So I think that that’s great. Turn the tables, connect in the other direction. Now, I do have to say it can become tempting sometimes to give a snarky answer with Jamie, he does ask me a lot of questions and he does not like being asked questions.

Gretchen

So sometimes that sort of gets me annoyed and sometimes I confess I will answer something like questions without answers. Meaning I don’t feel like answering your questions, but I don’t feel like that’s very constructive.

Elizabeth

Right.

Gretchen

But again, I wonder if you could go to your mother and grandmother and say like, this is a thing. This isn’t just me being funny.

Elizabeth

Yes, they need the four tendencies, right? Clearly, she needs to give them the question or check writer. She should have them take the quiz. Right, right, right, right. And then they can all talk about it and connect.

Gretchen

Yes, exactly. Because I think sometimes it makes it seem less personal when you’re sort of like, well, this is a very widespread pattern and so it still might be annoying or whatever, because, again, as somebody who’s who’s married to a Questioner, I would sometimes think like he’s doing this to be deliberately annoying to me. He’s like, What is this mean about a relationship?

Gretchen

But then now I’m like, Oh, this is just a pattern among Questioners. And then it just it takes the sting out of it. So maybe her mother and grandmother would feel it wouldn’t seem so like you’re being deliberately uncooperative. It would be more like, okay, well, this is a thing. Yeah.

Elizabeth

But anyway, it’ll be interesting to hear what listeners who are questioners say, Gretch, who have dealt with that. Yeah. There’s no doubt it’ll be things we’ve never thought of.

Gretchen

Absolutely. Or people around questioners were. Maybe you’ve been on the other side. You’ve been in the mother or the grandmother or the manager or the boss or the coworker. And you’ve figured out a way to to arrive in more harmonious relationship with the questioner. Questioner Super valuable tendency. We all benefit so much from the questioner tendency. But like every tendency, it has upsides and downsides.

Gretchen

It has certain challenges that come with it. And so it’s really helpful to have specific strategies for dealing with that. So let us know. And again, if you want to take the quiz, if you’re thinking maybe I’m the questioner or maybe that pesky person in my life is a questioner, it’s at gretchenrubin.com/quiz, right?

Elizabeth

Coming up, I give myself a demerit related to all of the recent rain in Los Angeles. But first, this break.

[Music]

Gretchen

Okay. Elizabeth, the demerits and gold stars. And you have a weather related demerit.

Elizabeth

Yes. So I’m sure everyone’s heard that there has been a ton of rain recently in Los Angeles and all of California, which we are not used to. It’s great because we need it. But also it has kind of made me feel sluggish. So in between the rain and after the rain, I have found myself just not wanting to go hiking or walk the dog.

Elizabeth

So before all this rain started, I was doing great. I was like every chance I had, I was running to Fryman Canyon. I’ve, Oh, I have 2 hours. Let me go to Fryman Canyon. I was walking the dogs all the time. Now I just don’t feel like it, you know? I just don’t want to do it. And luckily we have outside 23 in 23, which is helping me get out good and at least walk the dogs.

Elizabeth

But I really want to get back into my you know, I was really getting a lot of great exercise and it has slowed down a lot. The sluggish is the word that I keeps coming to mind. So I’m hoping by talking about it, I’ll beat it.

Gretchen

So is it that the weather is making you sluggish or it’s like a little bit more effortful or it’s more like you’re don’t break the chain got broken and now it’s getting harder?

Elizabeth

Yes, I think it’s more of the don’t break the chain and the getting back into it just you know how that is. You’re in a mode and then you get out of the mode and then it’s like, oh my gosh, I have to do all the things I did for like the last two decades to get back in the mode.

Gretchen

Well, this is a this is a very common challenge, which is that starting over is harder than starting. Many people experience that. But Elizabeth, I will say, is your sister. I think you have a particular issue with this. I think that for you, if something is interrupted for a little bit, it often is a big challenge. So I just think that’s a useful thing for you to pay attention to and know about yourself, that it’s like they don’t just come right back online.

Gretchen

Yeah, you know, you really need to think about okay. And to really, like, go out of your way. Maybe not to let yourself off the hook, not to say like, oh, because of right.

Elizabeth

Well, and what I should do is schedule walks because if I again Obliger if I haven’t scheduled the meeting someone, even if I don’t feel like, yes, I will do it.

Gretchen

And then maybe you get back into it. Because with every habit when you stop doing it, you’re like, Wow, I have so much free time now. It’s like, This is great. Yeah.

Elizabeth

So anyway, so that’s my demerit. What is your gold star?

Gretchen

Well, I want to give a gold star to everybody on my team and my publisher that I work with. Like, it just feels like everybody is being so reliable and so imaginative and so brilliant and so helpful. It’s a lot going on. I haven’t had a book come out in a while. I don’t ever take it for granted.

Gretchen

It’s like every time someone responds to my email, I’m like, Oh my goodness, yeah, it makes me so happy when somebody just answers an email right away, you know, because we’ve all been in those situations where you just have had to just worry a lot about just getting things done as you are coming up to some big milestone.

Gretchen

I just feel like it’s been such a joy to work with so many people who who are doing just such great work. So I really appreciate it.

Elizabeth

Yeah, well, I know it’s very stressful. Gretchen It’s exciting, but stressful to have a book out so it’s good that you have great people to help.

Gretchen

Yes, yes. A gold star to everyone I’ve been working with and the resources for this week. Again, take the quiz. gretchenrubin.com/quiz. I’m so excited to put this out into the world. I do think it’s really, really fun. We put a lot of effort into just the experience of taking it and like getting your results.

Gretchen

So I really hope that people will be having fun with it and then also that they find it a really useful thing to know about themselves as they look for ways to make their lives happier. And Elizabeth, what are we reading?

Elizabeth

I am reading The Water and the Wild by K.E. Ormsby.

Gretchen

And I am reading On Becoming a Novelist by John Gardner. And that’s it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Create your own audio apothecary. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

[Music]

Elizabeth

Thank you to our executive producer Chuck Reid, who added all the sound effects that made this episode so fun. Yes. And thank you to everyone at Cadence 13. You are welcome. Yeah, and get in touch. Gretchen’s on Instagram and Tik Tok @gretchenrubin and I’m on Instagram @lizcraft. Our email address is podcast@gretchenrubin.com. And if you 

Gretchen

like the show, please be sure to tell a friend and write, review and follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

Elizabeth

Until next week. I’m Elizabeth Craft.

Gretchen

And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and onward and onward and onward and onward. And onward and onward and upward and upward.

[Music]

Gretchen

So Elizabeth, speaking of sound, how are you finding the sound of the two Corgis barking? Do you now just ignore it and you don’t hear it? Or is it still is it still registering?

Elizabeth

I think I hear it. I feel like I hear it, but I definitely doesn’t bother me as much, which in some ways is a bad thing because then I feel like I’m less likely to make it stop and it could be bothering others.

Gretchen

Well, but it’s when it’s your own beloved dogs, it’s just it’s a lot less irritating.

Elizabeth

I know that’s the thing.

Gretchen

Exactly. 

[Music]

Gretchen

From The Onward Project.