Update
The Five-Senses Journal is ready for pre-order! It’s expected to ship in August.
This new six-month journal prompts you to explore your five senses and how they work together.
For 10% off, enter SENSESJOURNAL10 at checkout.
Try This at Home
Consider the Four Tendencies with the children in your life. Knowing this framework makes it much easier to communicated effectively when challenges or frustrations appear.
- Take the Four Tendencies quiz.
- Read The Four Tendencies book.
- Find more free resources, articles, and information about the Four Tendencies personality framework here.
Happiness Hack
If someone isn’t feeling well, get up and fetch the medicine for them. Loving actions spark loving feelings.
Interview
We interview my eighteen-year-old daughter Eleanor about what she’d tell a student who’s still in high school.
Eleanor’s Try This at Home: Use the pomodoro technique.
Demerits & Gold Stars
Elizabeth’s Demerit: Instead of scheduling time to worry, Elizabeth worries about the writers’ strike all the time.
Gretchen’s Gold Star: I give a gold star to my husband Jamie for dealing with getting our windows washed.
Resources
Take the free, quick, fun “What’s Your Neglected Sense?” quiz.
What We’re Reading
434
[Music]
Gretchen
Hello and welcome to Happier, a podcast about how to be happier, healthier, more productive and more creative. This week, in honor of graduation season, we’ll talk about why and how you should consider applying the four tendencies to engage more effectively with a child in your life. And we’ll ask my daughter, Eleanor, a high school senior who’s about to graduate, who happens to be an upholder about what she’d suggest for high school students and their families.
Gretchen
I’m Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, the Five senses, Human Nature. I’m in New York City, and joining me today from L.A. is my sister, Elizabeth. My sister, the sage.
Elizabeth
That’s me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in L.A.. And Gretchen, I’m very excited to see Eleanor’s graduation. Yes, very soon.
Gretchen
Oh, I cannot wait for everybody to be in town. Now, before we launch in, we got an interesting update from a listener about how to use the five senses to engage with other people in a very creative way.
Elizabeth
Yes, this comes from Gail. She says, I use the Five Senses ideas to create a nostalgia party for our friends. We had old television commercials playing on the television and had everyone bring their favorite comfort food from childhood. Chicken noodle soup, brownies, pop tarts, meatloaf, or a few of the items guests brought. We decorated with lists of items from various years.
Elizabeth
We bought these online, but you could create them, things that were introduced to the market, top songs, top TV shows, etc.. We also created a party game where we had stations set up with childhood games, Operation, Sorry, Trouble, Jenga, Kerplunk, etc. and people visited each station in groups of four to complete a challenge and get a score. Highest cumulative scores were the winners.
Elizabeth
After the party game we had people discuss their favorite smells from childhood. Everyone had a great time. Well, Gretch, this is the most delightful party I’ve ever heard about.
Gretchen
Absolutely. This sounds like so much fun. Yes.
Elizabeth
I love the stations.
Gretchen
Yeah, I love the stations. Operation is really fun. That is really fun.
Elizabeth
It is.
Gretchen
So that’s a great idea. And speaking of the Five Senses Journal, I am so excited. The Five Senses Journal is ready for pre-order. It will ship in August. Go to happiercast.com/journals. It’s a six months journal. That’s a really. It’s like no journal I’ve ever seen before. It’s much nicer than the one that I cobbled together myself when I was writing Life in Five Senses.
Gretchen
I’m really excited to have this go out into the world. And if you want 10% off at checkout when you preorder it, you can enter SENSESJOURNAL10. Just one zero, SENSESJOURNAL10 and you will get 10% off. Very excited about that. Very excited. And this week’s try this at home tip is to consider the four tendencies with the children in your life.
Gretchen
So this is for parents teachers coaches this is especially useful to consider right now because we’re in a time of transition going from the school year to the summer. Because what I’ve observed over the years is when things get shaken up, when schedules change, when routines change, a lot of times you face new challenges, and particularly as a parent, because it’s not the same challenge that you had last year at the end of the school year because your child’s your children are changing so quickly.
Gretchen
It’s like it’s a new challenge every time. It’s not like, Oh, I’m 45 years old and this June is like that June it’s like, Oh, this is a completely different situation.
Elizabeth
Yes. And in Gretchen, if people don’t know what we’re talking about, they can take the four Tendencies quiz, right?
Gretchen
They can take the quiz for themselves. If you go to gretchenrubin.com/quiz. 3 million people have taken this quiz. It will tell you about your own tendency, but it will also give you a little report. And people keep asking me to write a quiz for children. And one of these days I want to get around to it.
Gretchen
It’s tricky because an eight year old is so different from a 14 year old. It’s hard to think of what the questions would be, but I have to say, if you know the tendencies, it’s pretty easy to spot them in kids. I mean, I hear from parents and teachers and coaches all the time. I’ve got a three year old question on my hands or like, Oh, this one was a rebel from two years.
Gretchen
So it’s still very applicable even to children. You can just use your own knowledge of the word tendencies, even if they don’t take the quiz.
Elizabeth
Yeah, I like I can tell Jack as an obliger, just because I recognize my obliger self in him. Yeah. So explain them, what they are. So that will help people look for this in their kids. Yeah.
Gretchen
And so the thing about understanding someone’s tendency, obviously you don’t want to constrain someone with the label. People say, if you define me, you can find me. But I do think that if you know the common pitfalls of the different tendencies you can understand better where a child is coming from and how you might communicate more effectively. Because if you don’t understand their frustration or their hesitation or why something that you’re doing isn’t working, it’s very tempting as a parent or a teacher to just double down.
Gretchen
And it’s like, okay, that’s not working. And doing it twice as hard is going to make it even less effective right? So what this is looking at in a nutshell version is how people respond to expectations, outer expectations, and inner expectations. Our expectations are a school deadline on a project, inner expectation is I want to learn how to practice yoga.
Gretchen
So depending on whether you meet or resist expectations, that’s what makes you an upholder, a questioner, obliger, or a rebel. So upholders readily meet outer and inner expectations. They meet the work deadline, the school deadline. They keep a New Year’s resolution without much fuss. They want to know what other people expect from them, but their expectations for themselves are just as important.
Elizabeth
So what are the pitfalls of that?
Gretchen
Gretchen Okay. And I’m an upholder and Elinor is an upholder, so I know this very well. So upholders are very easy to meet expectations and so they can become really uneasy when it’s not sure what’s expected of them. If an assignment is unclear, they can just get really, really riled up. Eleanor and I will often laugh about how we will find things ambiguous that other people don’t find ambiguous because I’m like, It’s so important to us to, like, follow the directions correctly that we spot ambiguity.
Gretchen
Upholders tend to love routine, and so if there are scheduling changes, they can really have trouble adjusting to that. So that can make them seem really uptight or really rigid. So in your family, if you’re especially if you have a rebel parent who wants to be spontaneous, that can cause a lot of conflict because the upholder child is like, But we saw this and I have a plan and it’s like, who cares?
Gretchen
But to the upholder, that’s very unsettling. And then they can really get upset by something that you as an adult might not think is a big deal. Okay. You’re going to be a few minutes late or. Okay. The teacher said you have to read for 20 minutes every night. But tonight we didn’t get home in time. So you have to go to bed without doing doing it.
Gretchen
They can get very, very worked up. And you as a parent might think, well, this doesn’t make any sense. But to an upholder, they’re very uneasy about that.
Elizabeth
Yeah, I mean, I can see that summer could be a challenging time for Upholder kids because they’re not in their usual routine and things are changing and things can happen last minute and there might not be clear direction some days. So this could actually, especially for upholder kids be a time that’s a little uneasy.
Gretchen
Yeah, right, exactly.
Elizabeth
And then what about questioners?
Gretchen
Okay, so questioners question all expectations. They’ll do something that they think it makes sense. So they’re making everything an inner expectation. If it meets their inner standard, they will do it. If it fails their inner standard, they’ll push back. And so these are kids. They are often told that they ask too many questions. So it’s not like why is the sky blue?
Gretchen
It’s more like, why should I do it? They need to have a reason to do something. So you can’t say because I say so or ten year olds always do this because they’re like, Well, that’s just arbitrary. And that makes that doesn’t make good sense. So I’m not going to do it. They’ll only follow an authority if they respect that person.
Gretchen
Their persistent questioning can make them seem uncooperative or disrespectful sometimes because they seem like they’re challenging authority or they’re making trouble when they’re just like, Well, why would we do it? Why does this make sense? Why am I listening to you? Why?
Elizabeth
Well, it’s funny because I can see for instance, if a kid is going to camp. Yeah, the camp. As you tell us about your child, it could be very helpful to say, just so you know, elouise likes to ask a lot of questions. You can prepare her counselor for that or something.
Gretchen
Right? Right. And just say something like, It really is helpful to her to understand the reasoning behind rules, because then she’s more likely to follow them, which is absolutely true. Question If they think something makes sense, they’ll do it. But if they think that it doesn’t make sense, they won’t. I have to tell one of my story that just haunts me from a friend as a child.
Gretchen
So he loved playing soccer, played soccer, had a great coach, played goalie, then he got a new coach and he went to the coach and said, as a goalie, I think I should do different exercises from what the rest of the team does because my position is so different. And the coach said, I’m the coach and on my team, every player does exactly the same drill.
Gretchen
And so my friend quit because he’s like, That doesn’t make any sense because I have such a different thing. This makes no sense. They also love to have things customized, like they want things to be more efficient. Whereas if that coach and said, Hey, you might think that is a goalie, you would need a completely different set of drills.
Gretchen
But I’ve studied the regimens of the top teams and what they find is it’s like all the same things matter. No matter what position you play, it’s speed, it’s accuracy, it’s cardio or whatever it is. And if that kid had been like, okay, this makes sense, you’ve thought this through. This is customized to my position. I get it.
Gretchen
He would have done it. But if it’s just I’m the coach, this is what I say. So everything is cookie cutter. I’m not going to explain to you why I’m doing anything. He’s like, I’m not going to do something that’s so arbitrary and pointless.
Elizabeth
Yeah, and he lost respect for the coach.
Gretchen
And he lost respect. But he wouldn’t.
Elizabeth
Follow an authority if he doesn’t respect.
Gretchen
Them. Right. And so the fact is that he lost out on playing soccer because somebody wouldn’t give him a five minute explanation. So they need to have that explanation. But then they and then they can get on board.
Elizabeth
Okay. So that’s questioners. Tell us about the obligers.
Gretchen
So obligers readily meet outer expectations, but they struggle to meet inner expectations. And so obliges respond very well to outer accountability like supervision, deadlines, monitoring. Now, as being a kid, you often have a lot of accountability, but they might need more. You wouldn’t want to just say, oh, whenever you have a chance to do X, Y, or Z, or if this is really important to you, you’ll make time for it.
Gretchen
You probably are going to have to help them create the scaffolding of outer accountability, which adults needed to like. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone needing outer accountability if that’s what they need. Help them get it. It’s terrific and then they can achieve anything for themselves.
Elizabeth
Well, and for sure, as I mentioned, Jack is an obliger and he definitely does better when he has something on his calendar. I can just, for example, question with this is do kids get obliger or rebellion? Because I wonder if Jack will.
Gretchen
What a fascinating question. I do not know, listeners, if you have examples of children having an obliger rebellion, I would love to know about it. I bet they do. I 100% imagine that they do. I don’t know of any good example. I haven’t heard any good examples that I can think of from my own experience or from listeners, but I absolutely want to know that.
Gretchen
But it’s something that’s very important to keep in mind because if that obliger feels like expectations are just crushing and then they resist, then they could experience the downsides of that, just like an adult would.
Elizabeth
Well, so it’s interesting here.
Gretchen
And related to that, I would say, Elizabeth, when expectations are too high a thing that I think is really important for parents and to a lesser extent teachers and coaches to keep in mind is you have to make sure that things are distributed fairly. And it’s very easy. Like let’s say you have multiple kids and one’s in an obliger and one’s a questioner, one’s a rebel, you’re probably going to get a lot more pushback from your kids who are not obliger. And so it’s very tempting to ask them to do something because the great thing about obligers is and why obliges are the salt of the earth is they are very likely to
Gretchen
meet your expectation if you ask them to do it, they’re very likely to do it, which is wonderful, but it’s not fair. If things aren’t fair. I sometimes see situations where I’m like, I think that that obliger being asked to do more just because they don’t push back as much, because they’re not a pain in the neck about it, they get overloaded.
Gretchen
And that’s just not fair. This can happen in group work, right? You’ve got a bunch of kids and one kid’s like, Well, I’m just not going to do it. And so then in an obliger kid ends up doing 95% of the work because they are the ones that feel the pressure. And so it’s something to be aware of as adults where we need to help things stay fair and not let one person take advantage of someone else.
Elizabeth
And another thing, Gretchen, we talk with adult obligers about how a spouse often is not a good accountability partner because it almost feels like yourself. And i do think at least in our house, parents are not a good accountability partner for Jack. He does much better if a tutor type person or a coach or someone or a teacher is giving him accountability as opposed to Adam or me.
Gretchen
That is an excellent point. Absolutely. Outsource the accountability if you can, because the more outer, the more outward the accountability, the more power of the accountability.
Elizabeth
Okay. Now, finally, what about rebel kids?
Gretchen
Okay, so rebels resist outer and inner expectations. Like they want to do what they want to do in their own way, in their own time. They can do anything they choose to do. But if you ask her, tell them to do something they’re very likely to resist. For rebel children, this can often be very difficult. Many rebels have said to me that they felt lucky that they had a rebel parent because they felt like a rebel parent understands the rebel frame of mind.
Gretchen
But if you’re dealing with a rebel child, you really want to know it because a lot of the things that you might typically do with a child might backfire. Things like they will resist supervision, reminders, advice, directions. They don’t even like encouragement because encouragement is often a form of control. They want to do what they want to do in their own way, in their own time.
Gretchen
They often act as though ordinary rules don’t apply to them. They will do an assignment in their own way and just be like, Oh, this is the way I wanted to do it.
Elizabeth
So how do you deal with that if you’re a parent?
Gretchen
Well, there’s two ways. One is the Information Consequences Choice framework, which is I’m going to give you the information you need. I’m going to give you the choice and the freedom to make a decision, and then it’s up to you. The more you can dial in to freedom and opportunity and choice, the more powerful that is, let’s say, of a high schooler that you really want to work hard in school.
Gretchen
You can just give them information, consequences, choice. If you work hard, you’ll have lots of options When you go to college. You can go anywhere in the world if you want to go. If you don’t work hard, you’ll have many fewer options.
Elizabeth
It’s funny, a friend of mine had a rebel kid and he told me he put on his refrigerator. After reading your book Information Consequences Choice. He found that very helpful.
Gretchen
Oh, that’s great. And then also, you can help them tap into their identities. So they’re an athlete, an artist, an animal lover, a loving family member, a person others can rely on. Rebels often have very, very elevated values. So it’s not like they are inconsiderate or irresponsible, but they’re going to do things because of identity. So you want to help them identify that identity and show how something that they’re doing helps them live up to that identity or might be inconsistent with an identity.
Gretchen
When you do that, it makes me feel like you’re a person that I can’t count on. I want to be a person that others count on, so I’m going to behave in a way so that other people can count on me. And then again is also kind of information consequences choice, because if you behave in that way, the consequence is I view you differently and that might be an identity you don’t want.
Elizabeth
Well, I think this is very helpful as we enter summer. Gretchen I would love to hear from people what their kids are and how this plays into their lives.
Gretchen
If you’re interested in the word tendency, there’s so many resources on my site, gretchenrubin.com. I’ve got the book, The Four Tendencies. I’ve written a lot about how it specifically applies to children and adults. There’s more there than you would ever want, so just go to gretchenrubin.com and for tendencies and you will see it all.
Gretchen
Let us know if you do try this at home and how using the Four Tendencies with children in your life works for you. Let us know on Instagram, Tik Tok, Twitter or Facebook. Drop us an email at podcast@gretchenrubin.com or go to happiercast.com/434 For everything related to this episode.
Elizabeth
Coming up, we’ve got a medicine related happiness hack. But first this break.
[Music]
Okay, Gretch, it’s time for this week’s Happiness Hack.
Gretchen
Okay, This occurred to me because it’s something that I did and I felt good. So if someone is feeling a little bit lousy, maybe they have an upset stomach or they have a big blister on their foot or they’ve got a headache. If you want to show love, if you want to do an easy, tender gesture, it’s to go get the medicine for them, right?
Gretchen
This isn’t like you’re going even to the drugstore, but this is just all your stomach is upset. Let me run to the medicine cabinet and bring it to you with a glass of water. Because if for some reason, you’ve got a bad headache or there’s a throbbing blister on your foot or whatever, it just feels nice that someone is saying, I’ll go get it.
Elizabeth
Well, Gretch, I love this because I think whenever someone has a headache, I know if I have a headache, I don’t feel like going and getting my medicine. But if someone puts it in my hand with a glass of water, I will take it. And I think many of us have this resistance to just simply taking medicine when we know would help, but we’re just too lazy.
Elizabeth
Yeah. So I love this hack because it puts down that barrier and you do feel better when you take it. Nine times out of ten.
Gretchen
I mean, that’s the thing. One of my secrets of adulthood is over-the-counter medication is very effective and it’s really true. And you’re like, why am I suffering with this when I could just. Yeah, but there is something about someone running to get it for you. It just makes you feel cared for. And doing it makes you feel, you know, loving actions inspire loving feelings.
Gretchen
And by acting in a loving way, you make yourself feel more loving. And so it’s one of those do good. Feel good?
Elizabeth
Yes.
Gretchen
And now for an interview, we are going to be talking to my daughter, Eleanor Reuben. Eleanor is 18 years old. She is graduating from high school. As unbelievable as that is, the days are long, but the years are short. And now she’s on the brink of graduation.
Elizabeth
Yes. And then Eleanor is going to take a gap year and then she is going to Harvard. So exciting.
Gretchen
Yeah. So we thought we’d ask Eleanor to come and just tell us what does she wish she’d known when she was starting out and what has she learned from this position of wisdom and experience as an 18 year old leaving high school?
Elizabeth
Hey, Eleanor. Hi.
Eleanor
Hello.
Elizabeth
We’re so excited that you’re here to talk to us. I want to start out with this. Just asking if there’s something you wish you’d known when you started high school that you know now.
Eleanor
Yeah, I think so many things. But I feel like the most important thing is just the importance of finding your niche. I think it took me a while to understand that, like the transition between middle school and high school, there are so many things that change. There’s more freedom and more work. But I think the biggest thing for me was just the freedom to really explore what I was interested in.
Eleanor
But I don’t think I really took that opportunity as much as I could have. I think at first and it took me a few years to really find what I was interested in, not just in terms of the content, but also in terms of the people like at my school. If you are interested in theater art, which is mostly what I was interested in, it wasn’t just those things.
Eleanor
It was also like the people, like the teachers and the students who are interested there and I think if I had found that would have been a little bit easier for me, that transition, because once you find your niche, you kind of have a comfortable place to feel like you belong. And I think it took me a minute to feel like I was really adjusted because I was kind of in between worlds in that way.
Gretchen
Right. Okay, so now I have to ask a question which I know so many parents and teachers wonder about, which is, do you have any advice about social media? This is something that we didn’t have when we were in high school. But obviously it’s a huge thing in high school now.
Eleanor
I mean, it can be tough because I think everyone wants to be on social media as much as possible. Like I know when I entered freshman year, I had Snapchat, TikTok and Instagram and I loved all of them and I used all of them. And for the most part, I think Snapchat and Instagram are, I mean, not the best, but I feel like they have their place and they can be useful in terms of socializing and staying in touch with your friends and finding inspiration.
Eleanor
And once you’re applying to colleges, finding other people who are applying or who have already gotten in, those can be useful. But I feel like tik tok the cons outweigh the pros. Hmm.
Gretchen
So what are the cons?
Eleanor
The cons are just that it sucks you in. I think it’s a lack of choice. Tik tok. You open it. You don’t have to make any choices about what to look at. It’s just feeding you content that is basically endless. And you can open it and look up. And it’s been like 3 hours because it’s just it’s exactly what we’re wired to need.
Eleanor
And I don’t know about the like it shortens your attention span thing because I’ve seen kind of like different takes on that. But at least for me, it was definitely true that like I found that I was seeking shorter and shorter forms of content. And even like watching a movie wasn’t enough stimulation for my brain. And I just I don’t like that.
Eleanor
I don’t like that feeling. And I think the trend cycle is so much faster on there that it can feel like it’s hard to keep up. It can feel like a really negative place. I didn’t want that anymore, so I haven’t been on tik tok in like a year and I feel like I’m just much better for it.
Eleanor
Yeah, I feel much out here.
Elizabeth
Yeah. And I notice, like, Instagram is more of a connector, whereas Tik Tok is more of just a passive watching strangers do things a lot of the time. Yeah.
Eleanor
Yeah, definitely.
Elizabeth
Now, you mentioned the people in your life. When we ask what you wish you’d known in finding those people. High school is such a time of making friends. Changing friends. What advice do you have for people going through that and sort of realizing that friends can change?
Eleanor
I think as long as you have that in the back of your mind, everything’s okay because pretty much everyone I know, they don’t have the same friends by the end of high school that they had when they entered, and that’s fine. And I think if you keep that in your head like, I definitely knew that just from watching my older sister go through high school and seeing how many shifts in her friend group, there were basically every few months, I think I kind of had that in the back of my mind, just like while everything feels like it’s so permanent right now, it just isn’t.
Eleanor
And it’s fine. I mean, it means you can love your friends while you have them, but also know that if there’s drama or if you feel like people aren’t right for you, you don’t have to stay there. And when I was advising a group of freshmen this year as a senior that I tried to reiterate that because a lot of them were going through a little bit of that and feeling like they love their friends, but they also felt like they weren’t right for them and not really knowing how to navigate that.
Eleanor
And I tried to just be like, it’s good to love your friends, but it’s also good to take some distance if you feel like they just aren’t the right people for you. Because entering high school, it’s time to shed your old self a little bit. That’s how I approached it. And I think that was that was right for me.
Gretchen
Well, here’s a question that I mean, I think this is the study of so much research, which is how do you think kids who are in high school now were affected by COVID? Because you were you were for listeners, you were remind them where you were in high school during COVID and COVID.
Eleanor
Came in my second semester of freshman year, and we really didn’t get back to school until like the last month or two months of my sophomore year. So it was really that beginning period. And it also means that I was the last class who was affected by COVID during high school. So obviously for each grade it’s going to be a little bit different because it was early and earlier.
Eleanor
But for us, I think it just meant that we got a little bit less of that transition time. Like I think you could kind of argue that sophomore year is the least important year of high school because it’s like junior year is really that crunch time. Freshman year is that first introduction into it, but sophomore year is kind of in between.
Eleanor
So in that way, I think my class was lucky, but I think it’s also one of the most important social years because you’re in between that incredibly awkward stage where you’re like, I just need to cling on to the people who are around me and not worry about it. And between the time when you’re like, I feel like I’m mature and I know I think sophomore year is awkward, but I think it’s also good to have that one foot in one foot out a little bit because you start to really find your place and start to find what you’re interested in.
Eleanor
But my class was just stuck at home and not able to do any of that. I couldn’t really have any extracurriculars. I couldn’t really see my friends. And so I feel like we were just frozen in that transition time. So we didn’t really get to have that, like flexibility, that wiggle room. And then we were thrown into like junior year, which is like, now you have to be basically perfect because now you’re worrying about college.
Eleanor
So I think that was really unfortunate for us.
Elizabeth
Well, that explains why it might have taken longer to find your niche because you were stuck at home, You weren’t exploring stuff.
Eleanor
Definitely.
Gretchen
Eleanor We ask every guest if they have a try this at home suggestion for something that makes them happier, healthier, more productive, more creative. What would you suggest?
Eleanor
Okay. Mine definitely falls into the more productive category just because I’m kind of still in that in school mindset.
Gretchen
And you are an upholder.
Eleanor
I am an unholder.
Elizabeth
Yeah.
Eleanor
Yes. Something that’s been really helpful for me because even though I am an upholder, procrastination has definitely been something that’s hard for me because I just it’s honestly like more with smaller tasks, but I feel like I can really manage and I feel like those I tend to push and push because I know I can do them. And then I get to a point where I’m like, Oh my God.
Eleanor
So something that’s been helpful for me is a Pomodoro timer, which I think you’ve talked about before, but it’s just like a simple method of 25 minutes on, 5 minutes off, 25 minutes on, 5 minutes off, and then I think a real like 10 to 15 minute break and then 25 more and you just keep going. I use a website that I think is called tomato timer just because it’s cute, like it has a little animation of a tomato, but it’s honestly been very helpful for me also because I’ve realized something useful for my brain is having something to look forward to.
Eleanor
So having that little break to look forward to can be really useful, but also feeling like I have a timer that’s watching me. And if I have, if I take a break during those 25 minutes, I kind of feel like I’m cheating myself. And for me, I hate that feeling. So I’m I have to work for these 25 minutes or else I’m cheating.
Eleanor
And I really don’t like feeling like that. So I realized if you feel the same way, that can be a useful hack.
Gretchen
That’s great. That’s great.
Elizabeth
Yeah. And you can either use an app or website or you can actually get a timer, a physical timer often that looks like a tomato as well.
Gretchen
Thank you, Eleanor. Thank you.
Elizabeth
Oh, you’re so great to see you. Congratulations.
Eleanor
Thank you. I know. And I’ll see you soon.
Gretchen
Yes. So fun. And if anybody wants the best advice for recent college graduates, for career finance roommates and more, we did a very special episode about that a while back. I will post a link to that in the show notes coming up.
Elizabeth
I give myself a strike related demerit. But first, this break.
[Music]
Gretchen
It’s time for the Demerits and Gold Stars. And this week, Elizabeth, it is your turn to hand out a demerit.
Elizabeth
Yeah. So, Gretchen, obviously I’ve been talking about the WGA strike a lot. Big, big thing going on right now in my life. And my demerit is that rather than schedule time to worry about the strike and about the future, as you and I have discussed so many times, can be helpful. I’m just worrying all the time. I feel like about 98% of the time my brain is just thinking about the strike, what’s going to happen, what’s the future?
Elizabeth
And it’s just not helpful. Even if I’m doing something else, I’m thinking about that. So I’m trying to give voice to this so that I will force myself to change what I’m doing and set aside time to worry and then free my brain the rest of the time.
Gretchen
Well, it’s just really hard, I’m sure.
Elizabeth
Yeah, I’m sure. I’m not alone in this, by the way, I know a lot of people are spending a lot of time worrying, but it can just be draining. Yeah, And it’s not helpful, right?
Gretchen
Because there’s so many unknowns. So when you’re on the picket line, are you worrying? Or then you’re not worrying because you’re like, in the moment and dealing with whatever’s going on there. It’s more like when you’re at home and going about your business.
Elizabeth
I mean, it’s just all the time. It’s like, whatever I’m doing, I’m worrying. It’s just always there, alongside, walking alongside me. So probably I need to do some exercises or some mindfulness meditations or something to train my brain to let it go for periods of time.
Gretchen
Do the scheduled time for worry. I mean, you’ve done it in the past. Try it again and see if you can commit to it. And maybe you need to do it every day. Yeah, maybe it’s probably because it’s such a big worry that it can’t be ignored. Yes. For more than 22 hours or something.
Elizabeth
Okay. Gretch what about you, though? What is your gold star?
Gretchen
Well, I don’t think I have a gold star to my husband, Jamie, because our windows desperately needed to be washed and, you know, me, Elizabeth, I’m just like, well, that is our life now. Once the windows to other windows, you wouldn’t even cross my mind, frankly, to notice if he mentioned it. And I was like, Yeah, so be it.
Gretchen
And then he just up and got them washed. He made the appointment, he figured out how to do it and just set it up. And he didn’t even consult with me, which was wonderful. It just happened. So I give him a gold star because now I can see out the windows much better. If he’s right, it’s a big improvement and he just did it.
Elizabeth
That is great.
Gretchen
Even if somebody is doing the work, a lot of times like you get dragged into a lot of the fussing with it and he just took me out of even the fussing about it part.
Elizabeth
Well, and I have to point out five senses wise, clean windows definitely are good for the five senses.
Gretchen
Yeah. So I hadn’t even made that connection. But you were 100% correct. And that’s a perfect segue into the resources for this week. The resource for this week is to take the What’s your Neglected Sense quiz. If you go to gretchenrubin.com/quiz, you can find out what is your neglected sense. Elizabeth and I have the same neglected sense, our neglected sense is taste.
Gretchen
Eleanor’s most neglected sense is the sense of smell. I love the sense of smell. So, yeah, go to Gretchen Rubicam slash quiz and find out that interesting piece of information about yourself. It’ll give you a lot of ideas for low hanging fruit of fun adventures, ways to engage with people, sources of comfort and pleasure. It’s just good to know your neglected sense.
Gretchen
And what are we reading, Elizabeth? What are you reading?
Elizabeth
I am reading Walking with Sam by Andrew McCarthy.
Gretchen
And for my summer of rereading. Yes, it is underway. I am rereading The Life of Samuel Johnson by James Boswell. And that’s it for this episode of Happier. Remember, try this at home. Consider the four tendencies as you engage with the child in your life. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.
Elizabeth
Thank you to our interview guest, Eleanor Rubin. Thanks to our executive producer Chuck Reed and everyone at Cadence 13. Get in touch. Gretchen’s on Instagram and TikTok at Gretchen Rubin and I’m on Instagram at Liz Craft. Our email address is podcast@gretchinrubin.com.
Gretchen
And if you like this show, please be sure to recommend it to a friend. That is how people discover our show.
Elizabeth
Until next week. I’m Elizabeth Craft.
Gretchen
And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.
[Music]
Gretchen
Move over, Eleanor. Elizabeth, you see that ice cream thing? No, the other way. That ice cream thing behind her on the bulletin board. That’s from like, Tiffany Town from a thousand years ago.
Elizabeth
Yes.I remember it.
Gretchen
Vividly. Bonkers, right?
Elizabeth
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love it. Oh, my God. That brings me right back.
[Music]
Gretchen
From the onward Project.