Update
The paperback of Life in Five Senses is coming out on April 30. To pre-order, and to get the “secret chapter,” go to happiercast.com/secretchapter.
Try This at Home
Have a hard conversation while walking.
Happiness Hack
To cut down on smart phone time, a listener suggests using your non-dominant hand to play games.
We mention the Strategy of Pairing, which I write about in Better Than Before.
Know Yourself Better
Elizabeth and I report on what we learned from No-Spend February.
I mention the abstainer vs. moderator distinction.
I also mention the novels Missing May by Cynthia Rylant (Amazon, Bookshop) and Mystery of the Haunted Pool by Phyllis Whitney (Amazon).
If you’re interested in this subject, Ann Patchett has a wonderful essay, “My Year of No Shopping.” It’s in her essay collection, These Precious Days (Amazon, Bookshop). We did a book club episode with Ann Patchett in episode 283.
Listener Question
This week’s listener asks how to improve the quality of the writing he’s doing during his daily #Write24in24.
Demerits & Gold Stars
Elizabeth’s Demerit: She didn’t read the assigned book in time for the meeting of her children’s literature reading group.
Gretchen’s Gold Star: I finally remembered the benefits of wearing wool socks.
Resource
Pre-order the paperback of Life in Five Senses at happiercast.com/secretchapter.
What We’re Reading
*This transcript is unedited*
472
[music]
Gretchen
Hello and welcome to Happier. A Podcast, where we talk about ideas, resources, research and strategies about how to make our lives happier. This week, we’ll talk about why it’s helpful to have challenging conversations while walking. And Elizabeth and I will report about what we learn from our no spend. February. I’m Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness habits.
Gretchen
The Five Senses Human Nature. I’m in my little home office here in New York City. And joining me today from L.A. is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. And Elizabeth, we have had many conversations challenging and not so challenging while walking.
Elizabeth
That’s me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer living in L.A. and yes Gretch. That’s probably my favorite time to talk as while walking.
Gretchen
Before we launch in, we have a few updates from.
Elizabeth
Listeners. Yes, this comes from Abigail. She said, I’m listening to episode four seven and you’re suggesting trying some new food, music, etc. by the age of 25? Well, I’m more than 20 years older than that cutoff age. And so I thought of this as try it by 25, as in try it before 2025 next year. If you’re an obliger like me and need outer accountability, maybe this is something you could team up with a friend to do.
Elizabeth
My plan is to find a smoke free billiards hall here where we live in Japan and take my husband. I’ve never played before, and I’m imagining it as a perfect ratio of Zen and competition. It’s also on my 24 over 24 list already.
Gretchen
I love that. Instead of try it by 25, it’s try it by 2025.
Elizabeth
Yes. I can’t believe we didn’t think of that.
Gretchen
Yeah, absolutely. And I wanted to let people know my paperback is coming. A lot of people prefer to read paperbacks. Or maybe you just haven’t gotten around to buying your copy of Life in both senses yet. The paperback will hit the shelves on April 30th. As always, pre-ordering really helps the book, so I really, really appreciate it if you preorder and as a little thank you to people who do preorder.
Gretchen
I am going to give a secret chapter of the book. There was a chapter that I wrote. I worked hard on it. I did some interesting research about it, but it was ultimately taken out of the final cut. So if you are intrigued by that secret chapter, if you’re going to have your cars.com slash secret chapter, you can show that you ordered the paperback and get the download for that.
Gretchen
And by the way, if you’ve already bought the hardback, there’s a way to say, Hey, I already bought the hardback because I wouldn’t want somebody who bought the hardback not to be able to get this if they wanted.
Elizabeth
So it’s very.
Gretchen
Fine.
Elizabeth
Yeah, I love that now.
Gretchen
So this week are try this at home suggestion is to have a hard conversation while walking. So if you have to have a stressful conversation or you’re talking about a difficult subject, try having that conversation while you’re walking with someone.
Elizabeth
Gretch I know for me it works so well to talk while walking. You’ll even remember that when I started on my treadmill desk, which you gave me best gift ever. I would like to walk while getting notes because that’s difficult for me. And even the act of why that’s different from what we’re talking about. But it’s the same thing where walking makes it easier to receive.
Gretchen
Well, I think that not for all the same reasons, but for many of the same reasons. It is effective. And I think part of it and this would be true whether you were like walking outside in nature, which has its own benefits, or you’re in your home office walking on your treadmill is I think it gives stress an outlet.
Gretchen
Yeah, I and I think you too. We’re like we get kind of physically agitated, kind of like worked up and restless and high strung in that way. And when you’re walking that energy, that nervous, restless, uncomfortable energy has an outlet. And so it’s not pooling up in your body, but it’s just there’s a way for it to, like, come out.
Gretchen
And I think that that that helps you to stay calm because that electricity is in building up in an uncomfortable way. So that would work. That’s probably part of why that was helpful for.
Elizabeth
Yes, for sure. And one thing we should point out with this, Gretchen, is I do think it’s good to tell a person ahead of time. Yes. Warn them. Hey, can we talk about X subjects on a walk today or while we walk the dog? Yes, because you don’t necessarily want to just surprise somebody with a difficult conversation, right.
Gretchen
Where they feel like they didn’t know what was coming. And that’s probably good about the notes call is like, you know that the note follows. Yes, stressful. That’s true. So you’re like, okay, I’m doing this knowing that it’s going to be stressful, right? But if you’re going on a walk, you don’t want one person to think like this is going to be a pleasant run around the neighborhood with our dog.
Gretchen
And then you’re like, okay, I’m hitting you with this big subject that we’ve been avoiding. Yeah, So that’s good. Yeah. One of the things I also think that’s useful about it is that you’re walking side to side and it’s interesting how often people find it easier to talk or to be revealing or vulnerable or persistent difficult conversations when they’re not face to face.
Gretchen
And one of the places this often comes up is in parenting advice, where they often say teenagers are often more, they will disclose more, they’ll be more confiding, they’ll have more difficult conversations. When you’re in the car, because there’s something about you’re sort of on your way someplace. You’re not face to face. There’s something else happening. And that that tends to be a really good time to have conversations with teenagers.
Gretchen
And so I do think there’s something you can feel on the spot. It can feel confrontational. Some people feel uncomfortable when someone’s right up there. But when you’re walking, being side to side gives you more of a feeling of a freedom and not being in the spotlight so much.
Elizabeth
I also think just it’s very subtle, but I think when you’re walking together, you’ve made a decision to be somewhere together. So it’s like there’s at least something here that you agree on. You know, if you’re having a conversation that has conflict, then it’s like, Well, we’re here together doing this. So we’re kind of already on the same side.
Gretchen
Well, in your moving together, like you’re literally moving through the world together. And so that is also kind of a harmonious pattern. I didn’t even think of that. But I think that that’s right. That that’s that itself is sort of a harmonious behavior that maybe subtly supports a conversation where maybe you’re pulling in different directions.
Elizabeth
Yeah. And Gretchen, I mean, I think people do confide it’s not necessarily a difficult conversation, but you can find more when you’re walking like, yes, I hike with my friends and we often call it hiking therapy. And that’s when we talk about stuff going on in our lives that we wouldn’t necessarily talk about, like at a party or a dinner out.
Elizabeth
But when we’re walking, we find ourselves sharing all sorts of stuff.
Gretchen
That’s so true. I find that as well that I’m more likely to confide more. I don’t know why. Maybe it just feels there’s sort of a privacy and intimacy, but also an openness to it. Is it’s an environment where you feel good to confide. You know, also the thing about it is if you’re on a walk together, it’s quiet.
Gretchen
I mean, in that people are not interrupting you and they’re sort of the focus of like, we’re doing this together for a certain amount of time. But you’re also not trapped. And I think sometimes with a difficult conversation, you can people sometimes feel claustrophobic and they feel like they want to escape. But this this gives you this feeling of openness.
Gretchen
And yet they are kind of stuck with you. So they can’t just exit because you’re like, okay, we’re on this walk together. And so it’s sort of this nice balance of, okay, you’re here with me and like, you got to write it out. But also there’s a feeling of openness. I think that creates an environment where it’s not too much one direction or the other.
Elizabeth
Yeah, and there’s a natural conclusion usually to a walk, you’re doing a certain, you know, whether it’s Fryman Canyon or you have your loop around the neighborhood with your dog, whatever it is. And so then you’re not getting also stuck in the conversation. Yeah, on and on and on. It’s like, okay, now the walk is done and we can conclude this now.
Gretchen
I think it’s often very helpful to have a natural sense of the pacing of a conversation. So again, sometimes people will do this in a restaurant because in a restaurant there’s a natural pace to a restaurant meal. And so you know that it’s not going to be 3 hours unless you’re in a like a super fancy restaurant. And so that gives you a sense of pacing.
Gretchen
And again, with the hiking, it’s like we’re moving toward a conclusion. And so if it’s an uncomfortable conversation, people know you’re not going to like, try to keep me talking about this for 6 hours, because at a certain point we’re going to reach the end. And I do think that that often helps. And maybe that’s why the car ride is good, too, with the teenagers, is they know, okay, we’re headed to the mall and when we get to the mall, we’ll get out and we’ll do something different.
Gretchen
But in this period, I feel comfortable having this conversation with you because I know that it will come to a natural. And it’s not just going to be as long as you want to talk to me about it.
Elizabeth
Mom.
Gretchen
Yeah, which might be a lot much longer than that.
Elizabeth
Longer? Yes. Yeah.
Gretchen
Yes. So? So I think there’s and then there’s this. If you’re outside, it’s just helpful to be outside the fresh air. If you have sunlight, the sunlight in our eyes gives us a boost. It gives us energy. It’s good for our bodies. If we’re moving that itself, it gives us more energy, but it also comes us down. It boosts our mood, boosts even things like our immunity.
Gretchen
If we’re out and about, we’re seeing things we’re experiencing the world. That’s all the five senses coming into play, fresh air, all these things. There’s so much about it that could contribute to making a difficult conversation go more easily for both people. So let us know if you do try this at home and how walking during a challenging conversation works for you.
Gretchen
Have you done it in the past? Are you going to try it in the future? Let us know on Instagram threads Tik-tok Facebook Drop us an email at podcast at Gretchen Rubin.com. Or as always, you can go to these show notes. This is half your cars.com slash 472 for everything related to this episode.
Elizabeth
Coming up, we have a pairing hack, but first this break
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Gretchen
Okay. Now for Happiness Hack, and this is from a listener who is using one of our favorite strategies. There are 21 strategies of habit change. Some are more popular and more universal than others, and the strategy of pairing is very popular.
Elizabeth
Yes, this comes from Alison. She says. Thought you might like to know I’m utilizing two of your suggested strategies for building better habits. One, the strategy of pairing. I have one game on my phone, which is a crossword game. I now play it only with my non-dominant hand. I use just my left hand, and if I want to play, I must use my left hand.
Elizabeth
This helps me tap in the benefits of using my quote wrong hand to simultaneously asleep. This means I’m using this strategy of inconvenience because it requires more focused energy and more effort to use my left hand to play this game. I’m less likely to spend too much time doing it. Clever.
Gretchen
Yeah, this is really interesting. She’s like, inserted this strategy of inconvenience into the strategy of pairing. Yeah, it’s a very elegant way and I think this is a great idea. It’s like, yeah, you can play that game if you want, but it’s going to be harder. Yeah. So again, you’re not saying no to yourself. Some people don’t like to say no to your solves, but by adding a hurdle to it and using the strategy of pairing as a way to make that hurdle stick, it’s just making it that much more challenging and therefore it’s that much easier to put it down and do something else.
Gretchen
So people often say like, I don’t have enough time to change all these habits. It’s like sometimes they don’t take any time. Any additional time is just how you set something up. So very, very clever.
Elizabeth
Yes. And then, guys, we have a bonus hack from Lena. She says, I’m listening to episode 466 right now in the car. And I just got to the part where you’re we’re talking about what to do with conference lanyards. My mother has come up with a great solution to this one. She and her friends love to go camping in nature and also at music festivals and she clips little flashlights to the lanyards so that everyone can have a flashlight around their neck and not have trouble finding their way back to the tent or out to the bathroom during the trip.
Elizabeth
Things have a tendency to get dirty, broken or lost a camping trips, so they sort of organically get used up and she restocks with my new conference lanyards every year. I mean. Gretchen fantastic idea.
Gretchen
Fantastic. And I could imagine someone doing this if they walk their dogs when the nights are really long and you just want to have slip it around your neck or, you know, stick it in the car so if you need it, I would never have thought of my conference lanyard as a flashlight vehicle, but what a great idea.
Gretchen
I love it. I love this idea.
Elizabeth
Awesome.
Gretchen
That’s great. And now for a know yourself better, Elizabeth, what did we learn about ourselves from No spend February and you doubled down on those van February. Right?
Elizabeth
Right. Because we also didn’t spend February over on happier in Hollywood. Sarah and I did it and we’ll talk about it there as well. So, yeah, I was all about no spend February, of course. Gretchen We’re so lucky that we’re able to choose to do no spend February. Got it is, you know, not something we’re forced to do because of circumstance, right?
Gretchen
Some people aren’t spending because they don’t have any money. And so we’re very, very fortunate that this was our choice to make. But, Elizabeth, we did do this, and it was a very interesting experience and neither one of us had ever done anything like this before. So it was it’s always interesting to deprive ourselves of something that’s customary, because I think it is a really good way to know yourselves, because by briefly, just depriving ourselves of something, we’re more aware of how much time and energy it takes, how much mental effort we’re devoting to it.
Gretchen
And it’s a good way to reset our tolerances, because sometimes I think when we deprive ourselves of something, then when we come back to it, we might do it less or we might do it in a different way because we’ve learned what it’s like to give it up altogether.
Elizabeth
And it makes us aware of our patterns because a lot of times we’re not even aware of what we’re doing. I think that’s very true is spending. Yes, That’s why people who help with finances always tell people to look at their budget and actually look what they’re spending money on, because often you don’t even realize it.
Gretchen
You don’t realize that. Well, and also, our approach this month reminds me of the abstain or moderator, a distinction which we’ve talked about before. And people are different. Even the same individual probably is a mix of abstain or and moderate or depending on different behavior. But the idea is that for an abstain or with certain temptations, it’s easier to give something up altogether.
Gretchen
Sometimes it’s just easier to say none, never know and just cross something off the list altogether rather than to try to be moderate, which is when you say, I’m going to do it less or I’m going to do it sometimes, or I’m going to do it some days for some things, there’s there can be a lot of decision fatigue around that.
Gretchen
There’s a lot of having to like now, later today, tomorrow, does this count with moderation. And so sometimes it’s just easier to do something just to give it up altogether. And there is something kind of I don’t know that it’s exciting, but there’s something really interesting about just stopping something altogether. So I think for both of us, we were sort of interested.
Gretchen
Yes, going all the way rather than like, let’s just do it a little bit. That wouldn’t have been as interesting as just trying to have no spend February like doing a very dramatic, bold step. Sometimes the bold step is more interesting and engaging than something that somebody might be like, Well, it’s more realistic. You’re like, Yeah, but it’s not as much fun.
Elizabeth
Well, Gretch, I learned and I mentioned this when we started, that I really do spend a lot of time browsing online stores, whether mostly sales, but also not sales too. And it was really nice to save a lot of time because part of my thing was when I get these emails of like, there’s a sale here, a sale there, I’m not even going to look, I’m just going to delete the email.
Elizabeth
Yeah. So I did realize that I saved a lot of time, but I will say not doing it made me want to do it. By the end of the month. I was really wanting to buy stuff.
Gretchen
Well, that’s interesting because often you are more of a browser than you’re a buyer. You’re kind of a under buyer, but you’re somebody who likes the poking around.
Elizabeth
Well, maybe I actually want to just browse. And if I browse, I won’t actually buy. But I have that desire. Maybe now that you say it, maybe my desire really is to browse. But like I do feel like going shopping, like March 1st, you know, I’m like, I can go shopping now. And I never go shopping now.
Elizabeth
Will I actually go? Doubtful.
Gretchen
Well, that see, that’s so interesting that the browsing itself is an activity. But it’s interesting because you’re saying the browsing is the activity that you want. So if you were worried about not wanting to shop, you could say, okay, I’ll let myself browse, but I won’t let myself buy. But if you’re saying that one of the things that you enjoyed saving was the time, right, then you are spending the time on it.
Gretchen
But if you value that time, then it’s like, Well, this is an activity that I like. And so maybe the thing is like this is actually a legitimate activity that I’m going to say this is a thing I like to do, just like you might like to play Tetris on your phone, or you might like to watch a TV show or read a book.
Gretchen
It’s like this is just like a little activity I like to do during my day because I think it’s kind of a non activity, you know, I think it’s sort of an unclassified non activity.
Elizabeth
Rolling. Yeah, yeah.
Gretchen
But maybe it is something that you enjoy because otherwise I would say maybe you just delete the newsletter so that you don’t even see it. You don’t even that maybe that’s an activity that you like. So you like getting the emails.
Elizabeth
Well, you know, it did occur to me this month to do that, to unsubscribe from all these places, and I did not okay. I was like, Well, I want to get these when the month is over, so I need to think about it. I’m not Yeah, this is where I live.
Gretchen
It’s an activity that you enjoy. Yeah. It’s funny though. That it is. It’s the looking and not the buying. So this reminds me, it was this one thing that really surprised me when I heard about it, which is that what some people do is they’ll go on and they’ll fill up their cart and then they’ll just abandon it.
Elizabeth
I do that all the time.
Gretchen
See, that’s so interesting. Apparently a huge percentage of abandoned carts. People never intended to buy them. It’s just like people like the kind of choosing and the picking and the curating, but it’s a pleasure completely separate from buying. I think that this is really under understood. It’s not widely understood this aspect because it isn’t acquisition. Right. The point is not to get the stuff.
Gretchen
It’s a different kind of pleasure.
Elizabeth
Yes.
Gretchen
But so you felt like doing this almost made you want to buy more because you’re not browsing. You’re like, I actually want to pull the trigger on the cart.
Elizabeth
I kind of do. But maybe now that I could pull the trigger, I won’t feel the need, so I will see how it plays out.
Gretchen
Actually follow.
Elizabeth
Through.
Gretchen
Yes, right. Because you are kind of an under buyer, so I could see you just being like, it’s not worth it.
Elizabeth
Yeah, kind of. Now that I can’t use it.
Gretchen
So what do you think the long term consequences, if any, will be of doing this exercise?
Elizabeth
Well, I mean, one thing is with the ordering food, that was my other big.
Gretchen
All right. Yes. What about the ordering food?
Elizabeth
That was much harder. And I have to say, I broke my promise not to order food several times now. I still ordered much less than I normally would. So I really did realize, wow, I do this way too much. I knew it. But then again, looking at my patterns, it really confirmed it. So I’m really glad that I did that.
Elizabeth
And I’m going to make a concerted effort to order less often moving forward.
Gretchen
So it helped in certain areas, but it was less helpful in other areas. Or maybe it raised intriguing questions you had to ponder.
Elizabeth
Okay, interesting. How about you, Gretchen? How did it go for you?
Gretchen
Well, one thing for me is I realize that I do buy a lot of books very impulsively. So I always check the library. Unlike you, Elizabeth, I if it’s a book that I haven’t read, I really do want a physical book. I don’t want an audio book or an e-book. I want a physical book. So my library has it and I belong to a great library.
Gretchen
I’ll get it from the library. And I love when I can get it from the library because I can just get anything from the library. Look at it for one second and then if I don’t like it, I just return it. And so I always try the library first. But a lot of things aren’t at the library and I will.
Gretchen
I’m like, And I don’t even remember why I got these books. I’m like, why was I think it’s like somebody recommended it. And so I think that I will end up buying fewer books because I’m not buying them so impulsively. But like, here’s an example of a book how I would have done it. So I was reading a book which I highly recommend called Missing May by Cynthia Island Children’s Literature Books.
Gretchen
So Good, Highly Recommend. And the main character mentioned loving the work of Phyllis Whitney. And what I’ve learned is if in a novel a character mentions an author, it’s because the author of the novel that I’m reading simply cannot resist drive by praise. And so I’m like, Who? Who is Phyllis Whitney? Well, it turns out she was this hugely popular author who had written many books, and she twice won an award from the Mystery Writers of America for best juvenile novels.
Gretchen
Unlike I Must read Mystery of the Haunted Pool, my library didn’t have it, so now it’s on my wish list. And so in the past, I would have just ordered it. And probably by the time it came, I’m like, Why am I reading Mystery of the Haunted Pool? I don’t really like mysteries, but now, because I’ve sort of had this delay and I have a note on my list, I think when I get it, I will.
Gretchen
It will remember it better. So I think it will slow me down good and help me remember why I’ve gotten certain books.
Elizabeth
And then was there other stuff that you would have bought normally and you went way to spend February? I’m not going to buy this.
Gretchen
Yes, I saw an ad on YouTube, which I think a lot of people have seen for a fire blanket. And I was just like, This thing looks amazing. And I did spend a lot of time like, are these things real or are they not real? Kind of hard to tell, but I didn’t buy one. But I think I will buy one.
Gretchen
Okay. I definitely would have bought it before.
Elizabeth
Right on the spot.
Gretchen
I also heard about these things, sun gloves. I was in a store in RTI and they had some gloves, which are basically fingertip, less gloves like I wear all the winter. But you do it for sun and I don’t like the feeling of sunscreen on my hands. And so I was like, Ooh, sunglasses. I didn’t know this was a thing, you know, just to protect your hands from sun.
Gretchen
And but I didn’t buy them because it no sun February. And I’m like, do I really need this because I have those shirts where you pull the sleeve on your hand. I’m like, you know, is this just sort of like an overly particular thing? Or maybe I really wouldn’t use them. I’m going to wait for the summer, though, and wait to see, do I think I need these?
Gretchen
And then, okay, this is an issue. Okay, So I’m trying to do watercolor. I am doing watercolor this year. It’s on my 24 over 24 list and I’m doing it. But as I think often happens of people, my desire to buy supplies and things like sign up for online courses and get materials has kind of outstripped my practice.
Gretchen
And so I’m like, I would like to try a Chinese brush, I would like to try a water sprayer, I would like to try gloss, but I didn’t get them because it has been February. And so I think this reminded me what you need to do is focus on doing watercolor and then if you’re like, wow, I really I would be very excited to try a Chinese brush, get it?
Gretchen
But make sure that that is supporting. Yeah, frequent practice of painting and not like, I’m going to have the fun of getting the supplies. Yes. And like with the water sprayer, I really wanted the water sprayer and then I looked around the apartment and I found and we had a little bottle of, you know, when you buy a set of glasses and they give you bottle cleanser and a spray bottle and it was almost used, but there was just a little teeny part in the bottom.
Gretchen
So I just watched that out and I’m like, So this is a good example that if you don’t buy something right away, you may find that you already have it or you have something that could work just as well. So that was again, like having that delay taught me, I don’t need to buy this. I can repurpose it from something that I already have.
Elizabeth
Yes, that is a whole section of this which is buying a replacement for something that you already have like that happened with you. Right.
Gretchen
It was a three hole punch. So I used to have like this giant electric professional three hole punch and then it broke and I didn’t need it. And I had like a few pages that I wanted to punch. And I thought, don’t you have one lying around? You know, in the past I might have been like, I’ll just pick one up at the drugstore.
Gretchen
But now I’m like, No, I really need to find it. And there were like four places where it could have been, and I found it. So again, it made me take the time in the effort to make sure that I really needed it, and in fact, I did not. So that was a good lesson. Always. Really, really, really.
Gretchen
Look, if you think there’s any chance that you might already have something that could be useful.
Elizabeth
And Gretchen, in an upcoming episode, we’re going to share what listeners discovered about themselves and go spend February. So everybody let us know what you discovered about yourself.
Gretchen
Yes, absolutely. It’s going to be fascinating to hear. And also, if you’re interested in this subject, there’s a wonderful essay by Ann Patchett We love Ann Patchett. We interviewed her on a book club episode episode 23, and her essay is called My Year of No Shopping. It was a New York Times opinion piece, and it also appears in her essay collection, These Precious Days.
Gretchen
So if you want to go deep into no spend, that’s a great essay about it.
Elizabeth
Yes.
Gretchen
And now for a listener question. This is an interesting question related to the happier trifecta.
Elizabeth
Yes. And if you don’t know about the happier trifecta and the annual challenge, just listen to episode 461. Okay. So this comes from Jonathan who asks, I’m following along with hashtag write 24 and 24. This has actually been a breakthrough for me because I’ve always thought if I can’t write for 5 hours, I shouldn’t bother to write, and then I can never find the time.
Elizabeth
Now that I’m writing for 24 minutes with permission to stop at minute 25, I’m much more consistent. The problem is that sometimes I don’t have any good ideas, so my writing is a very good and I end up editing it a lot or even cutting it later. How do I keep my quality higher so this time is spent on my best writing?
Gretchen
Well, Jonathan, that is the million dollar question.
Elizabeth
Yes, said every writer. Always, forever.
Gretchen
A lot of time writing. Is that right? Yeah. Yes.
Elizabeth
Yes. We all writing is rewriting. Writing and cutting. Writing is rewriting and deleting.
Gretchen
And writing is being frustrating because you’re not having anything to do. Yeah.
Elizabeth
Yeah. So you’re doing everything right, Jonathan Yes, there it is. You got to get through the bad to get to the good, so just keep doing your 24 minutes a day and it’s okay. Yeah, You don’t always have good.
Gretchen
Ideas, but also more good ideas tend to come the more you’re writing. And so putting in the bad ideas often is what allows you to have the good ideas. And if you’re not doing it at all, then you have neither good nor bad ideas. And so just understand it’s part of the process. Yeah, Great question.
Elizabeth
Yes. All right, Gretch, coming up, I have a book group demerit but first this break.
[music]
Gretchen
Okay is it it’s time for Demerits and gold stars and this week is your turn to talk about a demerit.
Elizabeth
Okay Gretch I think anyone who’s ever been in a book group might relate to this marriage. I’m in my kid West. Yes. So we read Kid Lit. And this session I did not read the book selection in a timely manner. I had weeks to do it. I ordered the book. I got the book. I had it sitting right in front of me.
Elizabeth
I wanted to read it and I just kept thinking, I have so much time. I’ll read it closer so that it’s fresh. Yes. And I didn’t read it in a timely manner and I did not get it read by the time I was supposed to. And that’s just unforced error. A grudge. Yeah, well.
Gretchen
We’ve all done it.
Elizabeth
Yes, we have.
Gretchen
You feel like you’ve got so much time and then the time runs out or you lose it. Sometimes I’m just like, I know I. Where is it?
Elizabeth
Yes. So that’s my demerit. So hopefully you say it out loud will keep me from doing it again.
Gretchen
But also our the Kindle, it is our motto is no guilt. Yes. So it’s always like, come if you’ve missed for a year, come if you never read the book, like no guilt, just come.
Elizabeth
Yes, we have the same motto. All regrets. What is your gold star?
Gretchen
Well, I want to give a gold star to wool socks because my feet are cold and it’s cold here in New York City. And I was just wearing my usual notes to sell socks, which I love from Kansas City. These great cotton socks. And my feet were called. My feet were called, my feet were called. And then I thought, you know what?
Gretchen
I think your feet are warmer if you wear wool socks. So I pulled out a pair of wool socks that I had, didn’t have to go out and buy them, which I could not have done. And guess what? Wool socks are warmer.
Elizabeth
yes.
Gretchen
This was like a revelation. It’s like, do I need to keep learning the same lesson over and over? Yes, indeed I do. And so here it is again. This is why there are wool socks in my in my sock drawer. Why am I not wearing them? I do not know. But now they’re in the rotation for the rest of the winter.
Gretchen
So thank you, Wolf socks.
Elizabeth
Yeah, well, socks.
Gretchen
The resource for this week again, the paperback of Life in Five Senses is coming out. I’m so excited. If you are interested in pre-ordering the book and you’re interested in reading the Secret chapter, got to have your cars.com slash Secrets chapter. And that’s no face, no capitalizations, just secret chapter one word. Elizabeth, what are we reading?
Elizabeth
I am reading Catherine called Birdy by Karen Cushman, my kid Lit book Group selection.
Gretchen
Gretch and I just finished, so I haven’t started a new book yet. Missing May. My Cynthia Rylan’s. And that’s it for this episode of Happier. Remember to try this at home. Try having a tough conversation while walking. Let us know you tried it and if it works for you.
Elizabeth
Thank you to our executive producer, Chuck Reed, and everyone at Cadence 13. Get in touch. Gretchen’s on Instagram threads, Facebook and TikTok at Gretchen Rubin and I’m on Instagram and threads at Liz Craft.
Gretchen
And as always. Here comes the reminder rate review. Follow Unpause. Recommend to a friend. All these things really really help to let new listeners know about the show.
Elizabeth
Until next week, I’m Elizabeth Craft.
Gretchen
And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.
Elizabeth
Pressure is one thing that the whole walking while stressful conversation doesn’t work for and that is getting plane tickets because, you know, it’s hard to get plane tickets while walking. And I find that to be very stressful to talk about.
Gretchen
In fact, I think all logistics, calendar logistics you have where it’s like you get your calendar, I get my calendar, like let’s go through our calendars that you have to be sitting down for. That is true. So that is a whole category of of painful conversations.
Elizabeth
That doesn’t work.
Gretchen
It does not work.
Gretchen
From the onward project.