A Happier Labor Day, Celtic Tree Signs, and a Hack for Enjoying the Gym

Try This at Home

Use the annual holiday of Labor Day as a catalyst to reflect on your own “labor”—your work life, whether paid or unpaid.

I mention my weekly newsletter “Five Things Making Me Happy.” You can sign up for free here.

I also mention my “Habits for Happiness” quiz.

Here is the Met’s magic wand.

I also mention The Rabbit hOle immersive museum in Kansas City.

Happiness Hack

If you feel intimidated or turned off by a gym, look for a different kind of gym.

Know Yourself Better

It’s interesting to look up your place in the Celtic Tree calendar

Here is the photo of Elizabeth next to the hawthorn tree.

Demerits & Gold Stars

Gretchen’s Demerit: I had a very fixed idea of what these last days with Eleanor would be, and it took me a while to let go of my fantasy-family-self.

Elizabeth’s Gold Star: She gives a big gold star to herself and her husband Adam for signing their wills!

Resource

Of everything I’ve created, I think my one-minute video, “The Years Are Short,” resonates most with people. The days are long, but the years are short.

What We’re Reading

  • Elizabeth: Tell Me Everything by Elizabeth Strout (Amazon, Bookshop
  • Gretchen: The Library at Mount Char by Scott Hawkins (Amazon, Bookshop)

*This transcript is unedited* 

[495] 

 

[music]

 

Gretchen

Hello and welcome to happier, a podcast where we talk about ways to become happier. This week, we’ll talk about a useful way to think about Labor Day, that annual holiday, and we will reveal an update that will make listeners extremely happy. It sure made me happy.

 

Gretchen

I’m Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, the five senses, secrets of adulthood, human nature. I’m in New York City and my little home office, and joining me today from Los Angeles is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. My sister, the sage.

 

Elizabeth

That’s me, Elizabeth Craft, TV writer and producer living in LA. And Gretch, I’m actually coming to you from Ojai, where I am in my writing partner Sara’s classes, which is a closet slash office.

 

Gretchen

Is this a raw 20 for a 24 hour extreme work period?

 

Elizabeth

Yes. Exactly. Right. So I’m recording from Ojai.

 

Gretchen

Excellent. Well, before we jump in, here is an update. I wrote this at some point. Let’s just. Maybe you remember when I wrote this. I don’t even remember. Because, of course, I am thinking about the empty nest and the open door because it’s coming up quick. My daughter Eleanor is going off to college. So here is a haiku that I wrote.

 

Gretchen

Where did the time go? My girl is off to college. Days are long years short.

 

Elizabeth

Ooh, I like that, Gretchen. Love a good haiku.

 

Gretchen

I have that one minute video. The years are short, which people love. And this is the same idea expressed in haiku form.

 

Elizabeth

We’ll link to the video.

 

Gretchen

So I will link to the video and this week or try this at home tip is something that we’ve talked about before. But it’s so valuable that we want to come back to it, which is to use the annual holiday of Labor Day as a catalyst to reflect on our own labor. And of course, in our work lives, we have paid work and we also have unpaid work.

 

Gretchen

So Labor Day is a time to think about the whole picture of your work.

 

Elizabeth

Life, when we always say September is the other January. Yes, the beginning of the year for many people, that feels like the beginning of the year.

 

Gretchen

It feels like the new year in the United States. This year, Labor Day falls on September 2nd. Traditionally, you know, it’s a day to celebrate the contributions and achievements of workers to the strength and prosperity of the country. But, you know, it’s also become kind of the unofficial end of summer and the beginning of the new year. I mean, how many times have you heard somebody say like, okay, well, we’ll get to that after Labor Day, or, you know, people will be back at full steam after Labor Day.

 

Gretchen

So just like you can use Valentine’s Day to think about your sweetheart or New Year’s Day to think about what you want from the New Year. I’m a huge fan of using the calendar as a catalyst for reflection tying because you know things that can be done at any time are often done at no time. And so this is a time to remember to think, hey, or there big questions that I should be asking myself related to my work life.

 

Elizabeth

Yeah, it can be hard in just everyday life to sit back and reflect and look at the future. Look at the past. So it’s good to set aside time to think about it so you don’t miss out on the big picture because you’re so in the weeds, right?

 

Gretchen

Exactly. Which, you know, happens to all of us. And of course, this matters for happiness, because both paid and unpaid is such an important element of a happy life. So it’s something we really need to think about if we want to be happier, healthier, more productive, more creative. I clerked for Sandra Day O’Connor, justice O’Connor. And when I asked her and when I told her that I was writing a book about happiness, this is when I was working on the Happiness Project.

 

Gretchen

She said that her secret to happiness was work worth doing, which is such a great answer because work worth doing is so important. And this is a chance again, think like what is going on with my work life? Am I doing work we’re doing? Could I be working better? All those kinds of questions.

 

Elizabeth

So, Gretchen, we can think about what we could do better, what we might change, how we could grow. Whether that’s to do a side hustle school, write a spec script. If you’re in L.A.. Yes, go to a networking event, avoid the vending machine at work to date your resume, or even start looking for a whole new job.

 

Gretchen

Yeah, I mean, so you can use Labor Day to think about something as big as switching careers or something. This is something I know that’s been on your mind since you’ve mentioned several times that you want to clean at your office.

 

Elizabeth

Yes, I sure do. That would be nice to have a nice, clean setting for my labor.

 

Gretchen

So as we’re thinking about how can we be happier, healthier, more productive, more creative, sometimes it’s helpful to have questions to sort of ask ourselves to reflect on. So here are some questions that might be useful. One is what do you want to accomplish in your upcoming year of work? Like? Are there a few things that you can really point to that are the major priorities?

 

Elizabeth

Do you want to choose a one word theme for your work games? Yeah, or a motto Sarah and I have. RA 24 is the work theme.

 

Gretchen

This year I had one year. My one word theme was repurpose because I have so much material. I wanted to find new uses for it, and I still think about that all the time. That really got me focused on that aim of my work life and helped to reset it. One year was converge. I don’t think it was my official one word theme, but it was a work theme was converge.

 

Gretchen

Yeah, and I did all that work to converge my newsletters and everything just got cleaner and easier. It was better for readers. It was easier for me. It was easier to create. That idea of focusing on converge really helped me guide my work. And by the way, if you want to sign up for my newsletters Gretchen rubin.com/newsletter, you can sign up.

 

Gretchen

I will post a link in the show notes.

 

Elizabeth

And then it’s fun to ask yourself if you could magically achieve one aim in your work life over the next year, what would it be? Right? So would you magically learn a new software program, get a new boss, maybe switch careers?

 

Gretchen

Yeah. You know, and I think it’s helpful to put the word magically in there in my Have it for happiness quiz. A lot of times it said, if you could magically do something. And the reason that this is helpful is that we can consciously or even subconscious, be pulled back from bigger dreams or aims because we think about how hard it is, and so it can prevent us from really facing what we want.

 

Gretchen

And so when this word magically is introduced, it kind of allows your imagination to go bigger because you’re thinking, well, if I could just wave a magic wand, what would I want? And that can be clarifying. That doesn’t mean that it’s easy, but a clarifying way to frame the question.

 

Elizabeth

Yeah, if only we did have magic to achieve.

 

Gretchen

You know, in the met there is something that is labeled magic wand. Oh, it’s in the Egyptian wing and it’s there and it’s just labeled Magic Wand. And I love that. And I always have this fantasy of the movie where they’re like, let’s go get that magic wand. And they bust in. And from the mixed up files of Mrs. Beasley, Frank Waller, magic version.

 

Gretchen

Well, I digress, yes.

 

Elizabeth

And then another question is, are you taking on duties outside your core role? Right. I guess whether that be because you want to or because they’ve been foisted upon you.

 

Gretchen

Yes. Were you volun told to do something that’s really not your job? Well, I think related to this is are there tasks you can delegate? Like are you doing things that really someone else could do? One place where I think this is very helpful is with parents, because I remember when I was at the pediatrician with Eliza and mentioned something about the orthodontist appointment, and the pediatrician like, who’s amazing said to me, well, Eliza can just make her own orthodontist appointments and go, like, you don’t need to be doing that.

 

Gretchen

And it was like, whoa, what a revelation. Like, I could delegate that to her, but I didn’t. I didn’t need to do that anymore. But I’d kind of forgotten that she was old enough. She was absolutely capable of doing that. But it hadn’t occurred to me that I can delegate that work.

 

Elizabeth

Yes. And then in your work life, do you use a piece of technology or equipment that’s obsolete, but you haven’t pushed yourself to deal with the hassle of replacement? Yeah, we all know excellent tools make work so much easier and more pleasant. Yes, I have been guilty of this so many times. I mean, Sarah, I refuse to use Google Docs for the longest time.

 

Elizabeth

Yeah, and I have been the person who didn’t get an iPhone, didn’t get an iPad.

 

Gretchen

Didn’t you not want to upgrade your TV writing software? Wasn’t there something about that too?

 

Elizabeth

Yes. That’s right. Yeah. I had an old version of Final Draft I. Yes, yes, all bad. You have to get with the whatever is happening now, or else it’ll make your life much more difficult.

 

Gretchen

Well, one of the things you wisely said, because you are my sister to say just step into the future. And part of stepping into the future is staying up to date, which a lot of times it’ll make your life easier in the long run, but it will make your life harder now. And so it’s easy to just keep pushing these things off.

 

Gretchen

So again, Labor Day is a thing to say. Okay, I’ve been meaning to update Final draft. Let me make this the deadline in my own mind. Yes. Well, and another thing is I think you could tie this into the right 24 and 24 to tap into a happier Labor Day. Like you could do writing. Like, if you’re keeping a journal, you could focus on your work life.

 

Gretchen

Maybe you’re going to update your resume. That’s the kind of writing that nobody enjoys doing. But it’s very important. If you’re going to start a newsletter, you could be like, okay, this is my deadline. I’m going to start my newsletter around Labor Day. So it could tie in to write 24 and 24.

 

Elizabeth

Yeah. Good. Yeah. Might be interesting for people to sort of we talk about pop up groups like a pop up book group. You could have a little pop up work group where you get together with friends. Yes. And discuss what are my goals, because sometimes it’s easier in a conversation. Yes. Then to just sit down and think about it.

 

Gretchen

Well, and then also people might throw out ideas. You know, one of the things we always say is ask for help. And it’s strange how often it doesn’t even occur to us to ask for help. But if you have all these people talking about it, I think that’s a great idea. That would be super fun and interesting and I bet really, really helpful.

 

Gretchen

Okay, so Elizabeth, for you have your Labor Day. What are you going to be thinking about this Labor Day?

 

Elizabeth

Well, I feel like I want to just put myself in the zone because Sarah and I need to have an extremely productive. You do? Yes. You know, right now we’re in all work August and kind of needs to roll into September, October, November. So I’m really just going to try to focus myself on the tasks at hand.

 

Gretchen

So you’re happy your Labor Day is about sort of clarity that this is pedal to the metal.

 

Elizabeth

Yes.

 

Gretchen

Maybe it’s a season of sacrifice.

 

Elizabeth

I think it definitely is a season of sacrifice. And then one thing I want to do to manifest this, Gretchen, is I keep talking about cleaning my office, and I think maybe, you know, it’s the thing of I should be more specific and then maybe it will get done. I think I need to start with clearing off my treadmill desk, because right now it’s in the phase of being piled high and I’m not using it.

 

Elizabeth

Yeah, so I need to clear it off. So that day after Labor Day, I can like be on the treadmill desk and be working with Sarah and have all engines going.

 

Gretchen

Okay, well, watch out because you can call me a happiness bullet. And that is exactly the kind of thing that you can expect to get texts for me, like happiness, bullet reporting for duty. Send me a photo of your treadmill desk.

 

Elizabeth

Okay. Well, good. I need you for that. Okay.

 

Gretchen

Oh, how I wish I could be there to help you.

 

Elizabeth

How about you? What is your work thinking?

 

Gretchen

Well, you know, I’ve been talking about wanting to do a picture book, and this is something that keeps drifting to the bottom of my work to do list. And I feel like it would be such a great kind of new thing. It ties into everything that I love. Allison. We were both in Kansas City, and after you and Jack went back to Los Angeles, I went to The Rabbit Hole, which is this immersive museum that’s dedicated to picture books.

 

Gretchen

It was the most extraordinary thing there was. There were exhibits that you could walk through that were the great green room from Goodnight Moon. You could walk into the kitchen for blueberries for sale. They had me. I bring a friend exhibit. I didn’t know anybody other than me, remembered. May I bring a friend? There was Madeleine and anyway, it just got me very fired up.

 

Gretchen

But I need to focus on this. I need to, like, pull it up to the top of the to do list.

 

Elizabeth

Okay? And I’m going to the rabbit hole next time I’m in Kansas City.

 

Gretchen

It’s so fun. But let us know if you do try this at home and how reflecting on a happier Labor Day works for you. Let us know on Instagram threads, TikTok, Facebook and use the hashtag Happier Labor Day so that everybody can see what everybody else is doing. We can all learn from each other. That’s great. You can also drop us an email at podcast at Gretchen rubin.com, or as always, you can go to the show notes.

 

Gretchen

This is happier Cars.com slash 495 for everything related to this episode.

 

Elizabeth

Coming up we have a gym hack. But first, this break.

 

[music] 

 

Elizabeth

All right, Gretch, we are back with this week’s happiness hack, and it’s about going to the gym.

 

Gretchen

Well, this was inspired by a friend of mine who moved to a new neighborhood and she was saying, okay, there’s this gym, and I was planning to join, but now that I’m going there, like few times, I realize everybody is so fit. They’re so intense, they’re so into it. It’s just not the gym for me. So I’m not going to go to the gym.

 

Gretchen

And I said to her like, well, there’s lots of at least in New York City. And I think it’s true in L.A. It’s true in Kansas City. I know this intensity. There’s a lot of different kinds of gym. It’s that’s the kind of environment that you like. You like to go to the gym. Jamie my husband loves to like go to the gym.



Gretchen

Really look because and think about, well, what what do you want? Because one thing is some people really like loud, energizing music. I don’t like anything rackety. I don’t like that. Some people like lots of choices. Some people like very few choices in a very targeted thing. Some people like classes, some people like to work on their own.

 

Gretchen

Because I think she was just like, well, this is the gym, right? That I see and I don’t like that gym. Therefore I can’t go to the gym in my neighborhood. And so I think it’s just a recognized in a lot of places. It’s not every place, of course, but in a lot of places there are more choices than you might think once you start really looking around.

 

Gretchen

And so you might be able to find something that really suits your nature. People who like places, it’s like it’s more quiet and peaceful and in control. Allison, you’ve talked about Orange Theory. That’s a completely different kind of environment.

 

Elizabeth

I mean, I will say about the gym I joined once, a gym in L.A., and I never went because I hated there parking.

 

Gretchen

Oh, see, there you go.

 

Elizabeth

And it’s that little thing can keep you from going. So you do want to find what’s right for you?

 

Gretchen

Yes, but that’s a great example. It might be something. The convenience of it. All these things matter. So don’t give up. Don’t write it off just because the first one that you check out is not to your taste. Because if you’re fortunate enough to live in a fairly reasonable sized city, then you probably have more choices than you might realize.

 

Elizabeth

All right, Gretchen, it is time for a know yourself better question.

 

Gretchen

Well, this is super fun. This Elizabeth. We were introduced to this on our hiking trip in partnership with wilderness England. We went on our hiking trip in England, and one day during one of our hikes, our guide, Jeremy told us about the Celtic tree system.

 

Elizabeth

Yeah, it was super fun. We all loved the idea of being associated with the tree. Yeah, and it was just a fun conversation because it makes you think about yourself. Yeah. Even if the description doesn’t feel accurate, it makes you kind of think, well, what am I like?

 

Gretchen

Well, that’s why I think things like this are such great tools of self-discovery. What they make good day yourself better questions. Because even if you disagree, there’s sort of clarity in disagreement because you’re like, actually, that’s not true. Or it just gives us a different way of looking at ourselves in kind of the history of the idea of this framework is very complicated.

 

Gretchen

So we’re not going to get into that. But we thought it would be fun to just share the idea that this is a fun thing to know about and elicit. Let’s you and I, we will read our tree readings and these are taken from One Tree Planted, which is a great organization that we partnered with for Go Outside a few years ago, and I’ll post a link where they list what the trees mean, the significance of the trees.

 

Elizabeth

Yeah. So Gretchen, I May 19th is my birthday. So for anyone born between May 13th and June 9th, your tree is the hawthorn. Yes. And here’s what it says. Their external and internal personas can be quite different from one another. While they live seemingly average lives, Hawthorns carry fiery passions and inexhaustible creative flames. Internally, they are well adjusted and can adapt to most life situations.

 

Elizabeth

You are naturally curious and have an interest in a broad range of topics. You are an excellent listener and people seek you out as an outlet to release their burdens. You have a healthy sense of humor and a clear understanding of irony. With your amazing insight, you have a strong ability to see the big picture. Well, Gretch, I will take that.

 

Gretchen

I think that sounds pretty good. You know that. I think that your external and internal persona are that different from each other. But everything else, the inexhaustible creative flames and being a good listener and all that, I thought, that sounds pretty good, pretty accurate.

 

Elizabeth

I definitely have a clear understanding of irony. So yes, I agree there.

 

Gretchen

Yeah. And a good sense of humor. Right. Well, listen, when we were hiking, I got an amazing picture of you standing under a hawthorn tree. Like embracing your hawthorn nature. So I’ll post that in the show notes for anybody who wants to see why the hawthorn tree.

 

Elizabeth

Yeah, that’s one of my favorite pictures of the trip. So, Gretchen, what is your tree?

 

Gretchen

Okay, so my birthday is December 14th, so I’m an elder tree. That’s for people who are between November 25th and December 23rd. It says elder types tend to be freedom loving and sometimes appear to be a bit wild compared to other Celtic tree astrology signs. In younger years, you may have lived life in the fast lane, and as a thrill seeker you are often misjudged as an outsider, as you have a tendency to be withdrawn.

 

Gretchen

Despite your extroverted nature, you tend to be very considerate of others and you genuinely strive to be helpful. These acts of assistance are sometimes thwarted by your brutal honesty. Listen well. Sure, I think that that is a spot on is yours? Well, what do you think?

 

Elizabeth

No, I definitely I don’t see you as the freedom loving, a bit wild compared to other tree signs.

 

Gretchen

And I don’t think I ever lived in the fast lane or was no seeker.

 

Elizabeth

No, but you are considerate, and you do strive to be helpful. That’s true. I don’t know if I’d say you’re brutally honest. I do think you’re honest. But yeah, I think mine was more accurate than yours. But it’s interesting because Jack, my son, is in this and our dad is in this. Yes, as well. That’s true. And I wouldn’t say that’s necessarily true for any of them.

 

Elizabeth

Interesting. Jack is not a thrill seeker. And I wouldn’t call dad a thrill seeker.

 

Gretchen

No, but we all genuinely strive to be helpful.

 

Elizabeth

That you do, that’s for sure.

 

Gretchen

That’s true. Well, this is just fun. It was a fun thing to do as a group because it got everybody talking and sort of comparing like, oh yes, I think that’s true of you. And oh, and you know, it’s just it’s kind of an icebreaker. It’s fun and it is a good tool. I think all of these things are tools for self-knowledge, because they do give us sort of an indirect light in thinking about our qualities and sometimes maybe might help us recognize strengths that we didn’t recognize or strengths that we don’t have it all.



Elizabeth

Yes. All right. Coming up, I’m giving myself a big gold star. But first, this break.

 

[music] 

 

Elizabeth

All right Gretchen it is time for demerits and gold stars. You are up this week with a happiness demerit okay.

 

Gretchen

This is a demerit related to the open door emptiness phase. And so, as I said, Eleanor’s leaving soon, and I kind of got in my head this fantasy of what these last days would look like. And I first of all, I did not communicate this fantasy to anybody else, which was a major oversight on my part. And also it was like, what am I talking about?

 

Gretchen

You know what I mean? Like, why am I deciding that things need to be a certain way, they need to be the way they need to be. And I think I’m much better served by rolling with it and being open and just enjoying this time, these last days, and not getting overly focused on having them look a certain way or be a certain way.

 

Gretchen

We often talk about the fantasy self, and you know how I had to let go of my linen cocktail napkins, fantasies? but I think I had like a family fantasy self that this is what it would be. And once I said to myself, you know what? Let go of the fantasy and just think about, like, let’s just make the most of this time and really enjoy it and enjoy each other.

 

Gretchen

Then I felt enormous relief because I wasn’t trying to control everybody, and I wasn’t feeling resentful when people had different ideas of like, when are we going to go to target? It’s like, it doesn’t matter. When we go, we’ll go, we’ll get what we need. So anyway, but I give myself a demerit for taking some time to, I would say, come to a fairly obvious conclusion.

 

Elizabeth

Well, I’m glad you’re talking about this right now, because I think a lot of people are in your same position. need to hear this.



Gretchen

Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. But Elizabeth, we need a drum roll. Chuck, give us a drum roll. Okay. Elizabeth, I was so happy to hear this. I think our listeners will be so happy to hear, hear this. And also quite relieved to hear this. Tell us your gold star, Gretchen.

 

Elizabeth

Adam and I officially signed our will. Yes. Signed. Notarized. It is official. Yeah. I have been talking about this on the podcast for at least five years. Yes. You have more? Yeah. Put it on my my list of things I want to do in whatever year. Get our well done. We have felt like such irresponsible parents were always saying to each other, we have to get our will done.

 

Elizabeth

It’s not a complicated well, it’s just a will that needed to be done. Yeah, and our directives etc. well, it is all done. I don’t have to think about it again. I am so happy. I have to say so many listeners wrote in your suggestions about you see this to accomplish. Yes, about things to think about. Encouragement. Yeah.

 

Elizabeth

So everybody, thank you for your tips and encouragement. And it is done so I can move on.

 

Gretchen

Yes. Well that’s something big to cross off your 24 for 24 list right. It’s been a standing item okay. So here one question Elizabeth. Yeah. Do you think that the fact that you did keep it on your list and you rolled it over year to year, do you think that it did make you more likely to just to get it done, or do you think that because I think sometimes we kind of want to forget that something needs to be done because it just you’re like, oh, I don’t even want to think about it.

 

Gretchen

So you don’t think about it?

 

Elizabeth

Yeah, definitely. Having it on my list made a difference because it would just keep coming up. And it was something I knew was important. Right. So that, you know, I couldn’t just let it slide. But definitely I think having it on the list was helpful. Yes. Even though it took a few attempts. Yes, to get it done.

 

Gretchen

So everybody well, I call those boomerang errands where you think you’re getting something done. It’s like, but wait, there’s one more thing you have to do or figure out, like, oh my gosh.

 

Elizabeth

Because as I have said on the podcast, we had started the process ages ago, but we didn’t complete it.

 

Gretchen

So listeners, if this inspires you to get your well done, please let us know. That would be so satisfying for everyone. It feels good, right? Assistant you feel good.

 

Elizabeth

I feel very relieved. Very good.

 

Gretchen

Excellent. Well, the resource for this week, as I mentioned earlier in the episode, one of the most popular things that I’ve ever written or done, I think something that has resonated most with people is a little story that I wrote called The Years Are Short and I made it into a video. And so if you would like to watch that, you can go to happier cast.com/years or short.

 

Gretchen

That’s one word. I recently updated the video and again I think everything I’ve ever created, this is the thing that people mentioned to me the most, and it certainly feels very relevant to me in these last days before Eleanor.

 

Elizabeth

Goes, yes, I love that video.

 

Gretchen

So listen, what are we reading? What are you reading?

 

Elizabeth

I’m reading Tell Me Everything by Elizabeth Strout.

 

Gretchen

And I am reading the library at Mount Char by Scott Hawkins. And that’s it for this episode of happier. Remember to try this at home. Use the annual holiday of Labor Day as a catalyst to think about your own labor. That can be your paid work, your unpaid work, any work you do. Let us know if you tried it and if it worked for you.

 

Gretchen

And what are you thinking and reevaluating in your work life?

 

Elizabeth

Thank you to our Executive producer, Chuck Reed, and everyone at Audacy. Get in touch Gretchen’s on Instagram threads, Facebook and TikTok at Gretchen Rubin, and I’m on Instagram and threads at Liz Craft. Our email address is podcast at Gretchen rubin.com.

 

Gretchen

And if you like this show, please be sure to tell a friend. Follow us and review us. Here is your rhyming reminder. This one is about leaving reviews, reviews really do help, by the way. And we’re we’re asking for those five star reviews. Please leave them. People do look at them to see how many reviews you have. Here it comes.

 

Gretchen

Love the show. Leave a review to let us know.

 

Elizabeth

Until next week, I’m Elizabeth Craft.

 

Gretchen

And I’m Gretchen Rubin. Thanks for joining us. Onward and upward.

 

Gretchen

Elizabeth, I practically feel like buying a ticket to Los Angeles to help.

 

Elizabeth

Oh, my God.

 

Gretchen

You know, like, the last time we did it, I had so much fun. Gosh, you know, you would be happy if I did, though you might not look forward to me arriving, but.

 

Elizabeth

Oh, boy, I would be happy you’d been there. That is for sure.

 

Gretchen

If you want to FaceTime me and just have me like yelling over your shoulder from the phone, I will gladly volunteer for that.

 

Elizabeth

All right, maybe we need to get that on the schedule.

 

Gretchen

From the onward project.



LATEST episodes

YOU MIGHT ALSO LIKE

DISCOVER MORE

Like what you see? Explore more about this topic.

Subscribe to Gretchen’s newsletter.

Every Friday, Gretchen Rubin shares 5 things that are making her happier, asks readers and listeners questions, and includes exclusive updates and behind-the-scenes material. 

;